The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

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leenew
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The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:44 pm

Hi,

As a lot of you are aware, Michael Brown is on a mission to update, improve and refine his 100 disk games collection to make it one of the definitive sources for BBC Micro Games that is available anywhere.

It will sit proudly alongside the STH 143 disk collection, improving on it in certain areas, mainly in Michael's ceasless search for every loading screen and set of instructions that are available.

Also, he is striving to make the games playable on a real BBC with a datacentre fitted as well as under emulation on both Beebem and B.Em.
In other words, he wants perfection... :D
But you already knew all of that I am sure!

Which brings me to this thread....

So many changes have been made to these disks recently that I feel that it is a wise move to check that they all still work, and no errors have crept into either the instructions, or the loading and playing of the games themselves.
I am looking for volunteers to take 5 disk images at a time, and check for errors.
Preferably beeb and datacentre owners.

I took the first 5, and I will post the results below.

Anyone wanting to volunteer their time and beady eyes, just let me know.
BTW, 5 disks x 18 games = 90 games to check per volunteer......
Thanks,

Lee.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:46 pm

Disk 1
Q-Man: There are 2 system beeps from the beeb when this loads. Do we know why?

Disk 2
Alien Swirl: This game displays a warning regarding clearing the memory before playing, but it disappears before you can read it.
Hopper: In the instructions: "The object of the game is hop the frog" should be "is to hop the frog"

Disk 3
This is a general observation regarding the menu on all of the disks.
We have "Superior Fruit Machine" "Acornsoft Tetrapod" and yet just "Space Invaders"
I would say either never mention the publisher, or always mention it, or, when there are a few titles with a similar name e.g. Space Invaders, then mention it: "Space Invaders (Superior)" and "Fruit Machine (Superior)" just a thought.....

Disk 4
Ghouls: When the game asks if you want to see the game objects, reply YES and there seems to be a glitch in the graphics for the moving floor.
I do not have an original tape to try on a real beeb, but it looks wrong to me. EDIT _ IT IS ALMOST CERTAINLY CORRECT! SEE THE POSTS BELOW :D
Pengo: problems with the instructions: Persuade is spelled pursuade, "Whos diet" should be "Who's diet" and there should be an apostrophe after "Diamond cubes"

Disk 5
B. C. Bill: would look better as B.C. Bill probably
Last edited by leenew on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby billcarr2005 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:09 pm

leenew wrote:Disk 4
Ghouls: When the game asks if you want to see the game objects, reply YES and there seems to be a glitch in the graphics for the moving floor.
I do not have an original tape to try on a real beeb, but it looks wrong to me.


Ghouls-GameObjects.png
(8.98 KiB) Not downloaded yet


This is how is appears on the disk version, in BeebEM.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:22 pm

Yep, that's what I am seeing too.
Doesn't look right to me!
Well, I knew I didn't have a beeb tape, but I have just dug out an Elk version and loaded it into my beeb, and it is exactly as you have shown Bill, so I guess it MUST be right!

That's the first 'problem' crossed off! :lol:

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:35 pm

I have also just noticed a graphical glitch on disk 4 JCB DIGGER under emulation on Beebem: there is a problem with the 'meanie' when it plays the tune...

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby CMcDougall » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:59 pm

^I take it you mean the Mode7 digger and pink monster (wonky/blue eye) moving to the left with a little jingle before the keys screen? I've noticed this on bEm22 (bit better) and BeebEm414 (worse) too, but perfect on my actual beeb running from SuperMMC & 51/4" disc (don't have the tape now :roll: )
But, to be fair, it IS the best game Ever, of all time, and the flicker in game at top/bottom, just makes it the best IMO :lol:
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:10 pm

Yep, that's the one Col..... never noticed it before.

I have re-checked the even newer 1 to 5, and nothing else is broken which is good.
Q-Man on Disk 1 now BEEPS just the once now the new loading routine has been implemented.

Lee.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:36 am

Hi Lee,

I am glad that the better downloading routine has started to benifit some of the games.
The old one used a *KEY0 routine that sometimes didn't work if you pressed or kept your hands on various keys whilst loading and also allowed you to press f0 in high scores and store the download routine as your name or when answering a yes/no question, so its good that it has gone.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:45 pm

I have now amended Games Disk 002.

Hopper has been amended to say "The object of the game is to hop the frog"

Acornsoft Snooker now is Snooker (Acornsoft) in the Menu

The inkey(500) command in Alien Swirl is now inkey (999) so you have time to read it or press any key to skip as before.

regards,
Mick.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:47 pm

I have amended Pengo on Disk 004 and amended the error where the word persuade was spelt pursuade.
PS It was spelt wrong on the original inlay.

Mick.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:33 pm

I have taken your advice and put Acornsoft and Superior in brackets after the titles in the menu.

I have not re-posted the disks yet because more faults on those disks may be found so I will wait until they have all been corrected before re-posting them - unless anyone wants them!

Mick.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:50 am

One last thing about the Menu.

Should each word in a title begin with a capital letter or should it only be the first word and a name.

1) Felix In The Factory
2) Felix in the Factory
3) Felix in The Factory

should the "THE" be "the or The" as some of the games use both in their titles.
I only went to a comp so my grammer is not 100%.
Any help and suggestions would be welcomed.

Once I have got everything spot on, then I will re-post the lot, hopefully in May this year to celebrate my 30 years of the BBC games.

Once that it done, then that will be it... Although I will re-post the odd disk if any errors are found and corrected or any additional instructions come my way which might benefit the forum.

Mick.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:45 am

Hi Mick.
Grammar says only capitalise the first letter, but I prefer option 1 with every word capitalised. I think it looks neater and you don't have to think whether you are going to do a capital or not, you just do it :D
May also gives us a deadline to fix all the games with problems. ....
When you get a minute could you post a list of all the instructions we are looking for and all the games that have problems. I will compare it to my list.
Cheers,

Lee.
Oh! One last thing on a technical note. ... I read somewhere that it is best to make all 80 track DSDs exactly 400K but I can't recall why :D Maybe it is something to do with writing the images to a real disk?

Lee.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby 1024MAK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:10 am

Michael Brown wrote:One last thing about the Menu.

Should each word in a title begin with a capital letter or should it only be the first word and a name.

1) Felix In The Factory
2) Felix in the Factory
3) Felix in The Factory

should the "THE" be "the or The" as some of the games use both in their titles.
I only went to a comp so my grammer is not 100%.
Any help and suggestions would be welcomed.

Mick, if you bung "English correct way to capitalise a title" into a search engine (I used Google) you will find various answers. As Lee says, there is no standard as such.

Myself, I prefer capitalisation of the first word and of non "filler" words (my own description), so your example number 2. Typical "filler" words are: the, and, at, in, on, from, to...

But it really does not matter. If you have used the same as the original published works, that's fine with me :-)

Mark
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby 1024MAK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:13 am

leenew wrote:Oh! One last thing on a technical note. ... I read somewhere that it is best to make all 80 track DSDs exactly 400K but I can't recall why :D Maybe it is something to do with writing the images to a real disk?
I thought this was only recommended/needed for disk images that contained protection or unusual format track usage (that is data not indexed by the normal disk catalogue).

Mark
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:23 am

^^Mark^^
I am not sure, I am searching for the text now but without success.....

Going back to the disk menus, I used to use your method of correct capitalisation but it took a bit of extra thought, and with a list or menu it always looked 'random' or messy, as if I had messed it up :D
At the end of the day Mick... Your disks, Your menu, Your way :D

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:56 am

Before I crack on with 21 to 25, I have just remembered something that has always bugged me Mick! :D

The numbering of the disks has B-em versions with a B on the end, but surely, if these disks are the ones with unaltered, original code, and work on a real Beeb and on B-em, then it should be the OTHER disks, the ones that need altering to work on BeebEm, that should have the B?? :lol:

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:28 pm

DISK 21
ELITE, Instructions, "by fair means or foul and must blast onwards into space" should read "by fair means or foul, you must blast onwards through space"

DISK22
BOUNTY BOB, instructions on the "Moving pieces" screen "back and fourth" should read "back and forth"
on the "treats" screen, "aquired" should read "acquired"
RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP instructions BOUY should be BUOY
WIZZYS MANSION should be WIZZY'S MANSION on the instructions and on the menu
BLAGGER 2 instructions "SPOOKY, COOKY NIGHTWATCHMEN" should be "SPOOKY, KOOKY NIGHTWATCHMEN"
DISK23
OK
DISK 24
SWAMP MONSTERS instructions "if it trys" should be "if it tries"
DISK 25
RIG ATTACK perfect graphics only by loading the version on 25B on the real beeb. **see my dislike of this in the post above**

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:08 pm

Hi Lee,
there are a few issues here!
I knew there would be, as nothing is that simple.

I will sort the instructions asap.

When I originally started using the emulation, I only had BeebEm and modified all games to work on that emulator. Then came b-em and so I used unmodified versions. Then I got my BBC.
I agree with you and I will alter the disks when re-posting to make the amended disks the ones with the b on the end.

regards
Mick.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:09 pm

Don't worry, they WILL BE PERFECT (eventually) :lol:

Here are my results for 26 to 30

DISK 26

Thunderstruck instructions "Mediaeval" should be "Medieval" I think...
Superior Darts to be Darts (Superior) on menu
VIDEOS REVENGE should be VIDEO'S REVENGE throughout the instructions

DISK 27
OK

DISK 28
OK

DISK 29

Aabatron - control problems
ATOM SMASHER has loose a life instead of lose a life in the instructions
CRAZY BALLOON instructions "various maze's" should be "various mazes"
SHADOWFAX instructions refers to the middle earth place as MORDER, I think this should be MORDOR

DISK 30

SUPER BARRICADE instructions "avoiding the wals" should be "avoiding the walls" "on which your life depends on" should be "on which your life depends" and "inhabid" should be "inhabit"
One last game - control problems

That's enough for now, my eyes BURN :shock: :lol:

Lee.
Last edited by leenew on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby CMcDougall » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:44 pm

lee wrote:enough for now, my eyes BURN :shock:

bloody hell Lee, hawk eye is just not powerful enough for you now =D> =D> =D>
But to be fair to Mick, some instructions are spelt wrong (no F7 BITD!)
make all 80 track DSDs exactly 400K but I can't recall why, Maybe it is something to do with writing the images to a real disC?

no need for 400k, but think 90% of Mick's disc's are very near that mark anyways. With OmniFlop making disc's, it can be <400 DSD (<200 SSD), as no point in writing 'FF's for the blank bits, and so it's less than a minute to make (every second counts!) \:D/
Still think disc's are better :-
http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/user/custom/ ... rGuide.jpg
http://www.stairwaytohell.com/games/aco ... t-disk.jpg
^but even then that says K, but on cover its C :lol: [-( (K....pffft)
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby sweh » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:54 pm

CMcDougall wrote:as no point in writing 'FF's for the blank bits

E5, surely :-)

I had to modify my dsd->ssd splitter code 'cos Michael's disks were too short. My perl routines always save 200K SSDs, mostly 'cos they're designed to be merged into an MMB :-)
Rgds
Stephen

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:03 pm

Hey Col!
I think Mick has done an amazing job with these disks.
I know it must look like I am picking faults with them, but I think Mick wants them to be perfect even more than I do!
Once they are perfect (or as close to perfect as possible), then I think everyone will be able to appreciate them for years to come.

One thing I was thinking of doing when this project is finished, is to put together a collection of just all the VERY BEST games on, maybe 10 disks without all the dross that has had me screaming for the last couple of days (and for the next week or two while I test the rest of these disks)
Maybe Mick will want to help? :lol:

**We could get up to date even quicker with a couple more volunteers......**

Lee.

P.S. it's DISK :lol:

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby 1024MAK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:56 pm

A big welcome to Lee - the newest member of the Acorn Nitpicker's Guild =D>

Congratulations Lee :mrgreen:

Mark
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:02 pm

:lol:

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:48 am

Still going through all the disks making sure that *FX15 routines are added to stop the games starting prematurely. Also still adding the (D) to the menus where games re-activate the disk drive (for datacentre users).

Still unsure if it should be Games Disc or Games Disk in the menu and still unsure about capitals ie Felix and the Factory or Felix And The Factory.

Again, any help or suggestions would be welcomed.

regards,
Mick.

PS Don't forget the re-issued disks posted on the forum are just for testing and viewing and the correct and final versions will be posted in May in a new seperate thread.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby 1024MAK » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:27 pm

Mick, I don't think the Disc vs. Disk will ever be concluded.
My suggestion is that you go with what you prefer.

Mark
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby leenew » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:43 pm

Yep, Col never ages with ANYBODY :lol:
BBC Micro Games 001
BBC Micro Games 002
BBC Micro Games 099
BBC Micro Games 100.....


EDIT ** AGREES! COL NEVER AGREES WITH ANYBODY!!!!
Last edited by leenew on Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby CMcDougall » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:16 am

^^^^ [-( ](*,) :-s :-x LOL
lee wrote:P.S. it's DISK :lol:

any more of your cheek, and I will turn that 'S' to a 'C' as well........ :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Michael Brown 100 Disk Collection - PROBLEMS!!

Postby Michael Brown » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:50 am

Thanks for everyone's help.

I have decided that the format for my finished discs will be...

1) BBC Micro and Electron Games Disc *** in the menu.
2) All titles will start with Capitals (Felix In The Factory)
3) All catalogs will be Disc *** etc
4) All images will be Disc***.dsd for easy loading into a real BBC via USB
5) All discs will be for a real BBC and amended BeebEm discs will be D***Bem.dsd

When I first started out in 1984 I used the name Disk as this is what most software houses and disk manufacturers used. However, this was before the CD was introduced in 1985 when the name disc started to be used by software houses so I will now call all my discs "discs" as there is no real right or wrong way about it.

Hopefully, we can iron out any (if not all) problems with the games and also obtain the missing instructions for the remaining few and have a comprehensive collection of BBC and Electron software which works for us all whether it be on a real BBC (with or without a Datacentre) and under emulation via BeebEm and b-em.

I will be adding a new sub-menu to disc 001 shortly and I will post that disc image on the forum to get some feedback. This image will be the intended final version of the disc and again, any feedback would be welcomed.

regards,
Mick.


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