Yet more updates

feedback, questions and discussion relating to the Complete BBC Games Archive (beta site now open!)

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Pernod
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby Pernod » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:51 am

Some nice additions there, but also a few that won't work:
Ingrid's Back Picture Disc - just the pictures, needs actual game to access it
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 1) - needs to be in drive 1, used with Pop Quiz Master
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 2) - needs to be in drive 1, used with Pop Quiz Master
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 3) - needs to be in drive 1, used with Pop Quiz Master
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 4) - needs to be in drive 1, used with Pop Quiz Master
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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leenew
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby leenew » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:13 am

Hi Pernod,
We are just discussing a "notes" field to clarify just such instances.
Thanks
Lee.

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lurkio
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:42 am

Also, perhaps the "Play" option should be disabled for disc images that don't autoboot?

:?:

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:15 pm

Pernod wrote:a few that won't work

lurkio wrote:Perhaps the "Play" option should be disabled

I am wondering if I can make these work in jsbeeb using a custom URL, so the play option does everything required to use the disc. It will also help with Uridium which seems to work better in Master mode (at least for me). Don't hold your breath though!
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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Pernod
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby Pernod » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:45 pm

pau1ie wrote:I am wondering if I can make these work in jsbeeb using a custom URL, so the play option does everything required to use the disc. It will also help with Uridium which seems to work better in Master mode (at least for me). Don't hold your breath though!

Should be easy to do:

Code: Select all

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/jsbeeb/play.php?autoboot
&disc1=http://bbcmicro.co.uk/gameimg/discs/gamedisc1.ssd
&disc2=http://bbcmicro.co.uk/gameimg/discs/gamedisc2.ssd
&model=master

There's probably a few games that would benefit from being run in Master mode, that make use of any SWRAM. Fortunately jsbeeb Master mode starts in DFS.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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lurkio
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:46 pm

Pernod wrote:

Code: Select all

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/jsbeeb/play.php?autoboot
&disc1=http://bbcmicro.co.uk/gameimg/discs/gamedisc1.ssd
&disc2=http://bbcmicro.co.uk/gameimg/discs/gamedisc2.ssd
&model=master

Good idea, but I don't think this will work for Ingrid's Back because I think you have to eject the game disc from drive 0 after loading and insert the picture disc into the same drive..?

:?:

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leenew
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby leenew » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:27 pm

Doesn't the game check for the disc being in other drives? :-k I will have a look when I get a sec...

Lee.

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Pernod
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby Pernod » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:58 pm

I don't remember how this was originally distributed, but could've been a flippy that expects it in drive 0.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:04 pm

Some more updates, mostly to release types. Also some more games.

I also had a play with custom URLs. The following only works on the game page so far. I haven't modified the play link in the index page.
lurkio wrote:I don't think this will work for Ingrid's Back


So I made it say "Can't be played online"

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=2294

Pernod wrote:Should be easy to do:


So I made an attempt on the quiz database disc 1:

http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=2297

Loads OK (Master mode doesn't work, so took that off for this game) but it crashes because the disc is read only. I realise jsbeeb isn't going to save the disc image, but can we make the disc read/write so the game doesn't fall over? This happens on a number of games actually, not just these quiz ones. (Zen I seem to remember was one)

Any ideas?
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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lurkio
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:25 pm

pau1ie wrote:Loads OK (Master mode doesn't work, so took that off for this game) but it crashes because the disc is read only. I realise jsbeeb isn't going to save the disc image, but can we make the disc read/write so the game doesn't fall over? This happens on a number of games actually, not just these quiz ones. (Zen I seem to remember was one) Any ideas?

I presume this would require changes to JSBeeb to enable writing to the booted disc image?

:?:

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:49 pm

lurkio wrote: this would require changes to JSBeeb


Matt says:

one can have read-write discs that are local to the exact browser you're running.


See https://github.com/mattgodbolt/jsbeeb/issues/112#issuecomment-222745653

I can't see how you do that though. I have asked on that feature request.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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lurkio
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:16 pm

pau1ie wrote:Matt says: "one can have read-write discs that are local to the exact browser you're running."
See https://github.com/mattgodbolt/jsbeeb/issues/112#issuecomment-222745653
I can't see how you do that though.

I think he's referring to the disc1=local:YYY URL parameter, which currently allows the creation of a writable disc but only a blank one, so it can't be the autobooting main game disc in drive 0; it would have to be a second, blank disc in drive 1 -- which doesn't exactly solve our problem on bbcmicro.co.uk.

pau1ie wrote:I can't see how you do that though. I have asked on that feature request.

Good. Let's pile on the pressure! *

:wink:

* I realise JSBeeb is being developed by Matt in his spare time, so we can't expect miracles, but as the only in-browser Beeb emulator, it's become very important to bbcmicro.co.uk, which, I guess, sometimes makes us (i.e. me) impatient to see bugfixes and new features!

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lurkio
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:31 pm

pau1ie wrote:Matt says: "one can have read-write discs that are local to the exact browser you're running."
See https://github.com/mattgodbolt/jsbeeb/issues/112#issuecomment-222745653
I can't see how you do that though. I have asked on that feature request.


I've started a list of games that currently don't work in JSBeeb:


Everybody, please add to it if you find more examples.

:idea:

joachim
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby joachim » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:07 am

The bbcmicro.co.uk "Play" link for Dunjunz doesn't work for me: when I start the game, when it tries to load Level 1 I get "File not found at line 515 / Bad program".

From my recollection I had pretty bad results with the stairwaytohell.com images too: only one of them got as far as allowing me to play Level 1, and that one failed to load Level 2.

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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:35 am

joachim wrote:The bbcmicro.co.uk "Play" link for Dunjunz doesn't work for me: when I start the game, when it tries to load Level 1 I get "File not found at line 515 / Bad program".

I've added Dunjunz to the list. I think this might be a Sideways RAM issue because if you download the disc image from bbcmicro.co.uk and run it in BeebEm, it works -- and I seem to remember Lee and others trying to hack Dunjunz to get it to work on various setups, real and emulated, and it was the Sideways RAM version they were looking at, which is the version that seems to be on bbcmicro.co.uk (which is why it's got "(RAM)" in the title, I think).

Lee..?

:?:

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Re: Yet more updates

Postby joachim » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:59 am

joachim wrote:From my recollection I had pretty bad results with the stairwaytohell.com images too: only one of them got as far as allowing me to play Level 1, and that one failed to load Level 2.


Just checked the stairwaytohell.com images on jsbeeb again:

Dunjunz.zip: Disc fault 18 at :2 00/00. This seems to be because the STH loader tries to select DRIVE 2 and jsbeeb isn't having any of it.
Dunjunz-swram.zip: "Image has not loaded" (SWRAM check error). Makes sense in Model B mode, but why do I get the same error in Master 128 mode?
Dunjunz-Master.zip (in Master 128 mode): This works up to the end of Level 1, then instead of loading Level 2 I get "Not found / Bad program".

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leenew
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby leenew » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:38 am

HI,
Yes, I really need to get back to trying to fix these games with SWR issues.
UIM, Dr. Who And The Mines Of Terror, Exiz, Zedon, Dunjunz, Exile, and the "Holed Out" games all benefit from SWR, and some of them have problems loading the extra data into differing setups.
As I recall (this may not be entirely accurate) :wink: the biggest issue is determining which banks of memory are available for SWR.
Because the beeb does not fully decode this, we have the problem of "ghost" banks of RAM showing up, which may not actually be available.
Some of the games listed try and load data into specific RAM banks which may or may not be available.
I think JGH was going to look into writing some code that correctly identifies which (if any) banks of RAM are available.
Because there are various systems, such as Solidisk, Watford and Aries boards, which all have their own peculiarities, the solution is much more difficult than I imagined.
When I get a moment I will try all of the games listed above and try to give a more concise description of the problems each disc image has....
Dunjunz and the Holed out series seem to be the most problematic.
Any help on this matter would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Lee.

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lurkio
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby lurkio » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:41 pm

leenew wrote:the biggest issue is determining which banks of memory are available for SWR ... Because there are various systems, such as Solidisk, Watford and Aries boards, which all have their own peculiarities, the solution is much more difficult than I imagined.

tricky's code below seems to handle Solidisk SWR at least:

Is that not good enough for most extant setups (real or emulated) today?

:?:

More JSBeeb/SWRAM/Dunjunz discussion here:

:idea:

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tricky
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby tricky » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:14 pm

I added more support to that code, Watford ROM/RAM uses STA &FF30,X where A doesn't matter and X is the write bank.
There may have been other additions, I can't find the code at the moment!
Should look something like this, although I don't have any hardware unpacked to check.

Code: Select all

   10 REM All three stages need to be separate to account for bank aliasing
   20 tstaddr = &8008
   30 values = &70
   40 unique = &80
   50 OsSlot = &F4
   60 RomSel = &FE30
   70 RamSel = &FE32
   80 UsrDat = &FE60
   90 UsrDDR = &FE62
  100 RomRam = &FF30
  110 REM Find 16 values distinct from the 16 rom values and each other and save the original rom values
  120 DIM CODE &100
  130 FOR P = 0 TO 2 STEP 2
  140 P%=CODE
  150 [
  160 OPT P
  170     SEI
  180     LDY    #15        \\ unique values (-1) to find
  190     STY    UsrDDR     \\ set user via DDRB low bits as output - required for Solidisk SW RAM
  200     TYA               \\ A can start anywhere less than 256-64 as it just needs to allow for
  210 .next_val:            \\ enough numbers not to clash with rom, tst and uninitialised tst values
  220     LDX    #15        \\ sideways bank
  230     ADC    #1         \\ will inc mostly by 2, but doesn't matter
  240 .next_slot:
  250     STX    RomSel
  260     CMP    tstaddr
  270     BEQ    next_val
  280     CMP    unique,X   \\ doesn't matter that we haven't checked these yet, it just excludes unnecessary values
  290     BEQ    next_val
  300     DEX
  310     BPL    next_slot
  320     STA    unique,Y
  330     LDX    tstaddr
  340     STX    values,Y
  350     DEY
  360     BPL    next_val
  370     LDX    #0         \\ Try to swap each rom value with a unique test value (count up for solidisk)
  380 .swap:
  390     STX    UsrDat     \\ set Solidisk SWRAM index
  400     STX    RamSel     \\ set RAMSEL incase it is used
  410     STX    RomSel     \\ set ROMSEL homebrew and some other boards
  420     STA    RomRam,X   \\ set Watford ROMRAM/2MEG board - write bank
  430     LDA    unique,X
  440     STA    tstaddr
  450     INX               \\ count up to allow for Solidisk only have 3 select bits
  460     CPX    #16
  470     BNE    swap
  480     LDY    #16        \\ count matching values and restore old values - reverse order to swapping is safe
  490     LDX    #15
  500 .tst_restore:
  510     STX    RomSel
  520     LDA    tstaddr
  550     CMP    unique,X   \\ if it has changed, but is not this value, it will be picked up in a later bank
  560     BNE    not_swr
  570     STX    UsrDat     \\ set Solidisk SWRAM index
  580     STX    RamSel     \\ set RAMSEL incase it is used
  690     STX    RomSel     \\ set ROMSEL homebrew and some other boards
  600     STA    RomRam,X   \\ set Watford ROMRAM/2MEG board - write bank
  610     LDA    values,X
  620     STA    tstaddr
  630     DEY
  640     STX    values,Y
  650 .not_swr:
  660     DEX
  670     BPL    tst_restore
  680     STY    values
  690     LDA    OsSlot
  700     STA    RomSel     \\ restore original ROM
  710     CLI
  720     RTS
  730 ]
  740 NEXT
  750 CALL CODE
  760 PRINT"SWRAM Banks:";16-?&70
  770 IF ?&70 <> 16 THEN FOR X% = ?&70 TO 15 : PRINTX%?&70 : NEXT
Number of banks = 16 - ?&70 and are stored in &80 - number of banks .. &7F - see last two lines of code above.

Writing is basically copy to main RAM, repeat {disable interrupts, select bank, copy page, enable interrupts} until done.
Duikkie recommended pushing and popping the state of the user port around the whole thing.
I find that the user port MMC fails the first operation after messing with it, so I add something along the lines of:

Code: Select all

10 *LOAD ROM
20 *FINDSWR
30 CALL UPLOAD
40 ON ERROR GOTO 60
50 GOTO 70
60 ON ERROR OFF
70 *GAME
You can see this in action in my AstroBlaster game, although it may not have the RamRom code.
As I use SmartSPI using PB4/5, it doesn't usually cause an issue, but better safe than sorry.

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:24 pm

Just a couple more games today:


and a couple more changes to metadata.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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AndyF
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby AndyF » Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:39 am

None of my remakes (Spectrum to BBC Micro) adventure games have yet appeared ? :)

I don't mind if you do not want to include them though its fine. Just mentioning it. :oops: :mrgreen:

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leenew
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby leenew » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:37 am

Hi Andy,
Of course we want them :D
There's plenty of room at the inn.
I am surprised they are not mentioned on CASA http://solutionarchive.com/list/letter% ... tform%2C4/
This is where I got my list of beeb adventures from.
I will upload yours in the next round of updates.

Lee.

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:31 pm

Some more games Lee sent before Christmas...


Also, I finished the custom URL code, and added a notes field. See:
Pop Quiz Master (Database Disc 1)
Unfortunately the custom URL field doesn't help with this game. I need to look into the ones that do need changing. pernod70 provided some in the jsbeeb bug where we are tracking non working games.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:57 pm

Yet more games from Lee.

Actually, the first two aren't new, they are split out from

as it was decided they should be separate games.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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sydney
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby sydney » Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:03 pm

Just browsing the site today and noticed the Skirmish screenshot was a bit garbled at the bottom so I've took another.

OLD:
Image

NEW:

Skirmish-Godax.png

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:09 pm

Thanks Sidney, I scaled your screenshot down and uploaded it.

I have also made some changes to the site.

New games from Lee:


There are some new fields in the database, which have been populated where appropriate, and should show on the game page if they are populated.

  • players_min (Minimum number of players - normally 1)
  • players_max (Maximum number of players - normally 1)
  • joystick - Is a joystick supported, or required?
  • save - Can the game be saved? To disc or tape?
  • hardware - Is any special hardware required?
  • electron - Is it a conversion from an electron game?
  • version - If there is a version number it is put in this line. This might have to be moved to the image table at some stage
  • edit - I am not totally happy with this. It reflects if the game was edited to work on disc from tape, or if there were disc and tape versions of the game, which was chosen (Normally the disc one). Also sometimes the game is edited down to fit on Mick's compilation discs.
  • series - If the game is part of a series, this is the name of the series.
  • series_no - And if the games in the series are numbered, the number is entered here.

I have also posted games from the first 10 discs from Micks collection where he fixed the *key problem (See http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8270&start=270#p158333 which Lee has split out into individual ssds for the website.

I still have a few more games to upload, but that's enough for today.
I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk

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pau1ie
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Re: Yet more updates

Postby pau1ie » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:24 pm

Last few games from Lee:

I'm working on http://bbcmicro.co.uk


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