High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

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KarateEd
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:15 am

I actually thought we had played this at some other challenge earlier, couldn't find it but I remember doing so much better, getting through all the levels, the last one with some difficulty but able to do so more than once.... so I've definitely slipped or that version was a different, maybe easier version..... just don't remember.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:28 am

Ok, just to show I can get better,

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby Wouter Scholten » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:22 pm

Ah it was nearly 21 years ago that I last played Rocket raid. I scored 70k then and the problem was the fuel cannisters at the end of the maze, usually lost a life there, hence 70k, which all came back to me when I seriously played several games this night to try to get perfect in the maze. First 2 games a few days ago I scored 15k and 16k. This night still nowhere near perfect but finally got through a few times and got to 56,970.

If I have the inclination I will try to conquer the end of the maze and if so, attack the 192,000 score from beebgames.com

As a graphical demo it's great but as a game it quickly loses appeal, similar to Fortress...
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:51 pm

Well, for me, I like this game but love Fortress. One should remember, everyone has a different way of looking at games. Sometimes, what's ultimately boring for one person is another person's charm. We all have the games we like/love. For me, I love Fortress. Not being particularily good at games probably extends the game play of some of these games to a level of interest not found by others. That's how it is with me.

and btw, I finally got to the blue section only to die because I forgot where I had to be when I got there..... sigh.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:18 pm

Now I'm starting to remember this. Score is no better but got to the puzzle where you have to control horizontal movement very carefully. Yeh, that level can be a nightmare.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby chrisn » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:57 pm

KarateEd wrote:Well, for me, I like this game but love Fortress. One should remember, everyone has a different way of looking at games. Sometimes, what's ultimately boring for one person is another person's charm. We all have the games we like/love. For me, I love Fortress. Not being particularily good at games probably extends the game play of some of these games to a level of interest not found by others. That's how it is with me.

I fully agree. I'm having fun playing Rocket Raid again, and Fortress is great too. Only a slightly better score this time: 26,340

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby Wouter Scholten » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:58 pm

KarateEd wrote:Well, for me, I like this game but love Fortress. One should remember, everyone has a different way of looking at games. Sometimes, what's ultimately boring for one person is another person's charm. We all have the games we like/love. For me, I love Fortress. Not being particularily good at games probably extends the game play of some of these games to a level of interest not found by others. That's how it is with me.


Of course. For me the appeal is gone with Fortress because of 2 factors:

1) I achieved a few nearly impossible to improve upon scores in 1986, because the score is limited by the fuel on the course. Each time you go through the loop fuel depletes more quickly. I was playing perfectly (in the sense of only dying from lack of fuel) so the only way to improve is to put in a huge amount of time to get some more fuel barrels that are very hard to get. I don't want to do that, so for me the challenge is gone (and from other games played, I am sure that I could achieve the same scores again now, so playing it to show to myself "I can still do it" is also not a reason to play it again)

and:

2) there is no randomness, always the same rockets go up and always the planes are in the same position.

Point 2 also goes for Rocket raid although I didn't master that (as I usually lost/lose a life at the end of the maze) but it has 2 other issues:

a) no increase in difficulty the next time going through the loop. Fuel doesn't seem to be depleting faster either, but perhaps it does and will become clear only at later rounds through the loop?
b) The maze level has such a hard ending that the rest of the game is only preparation for that. It is a bit as with Galaforce (not Galaforce 2), which is too hard at certain points (esp. level 3) which takes the fun out of it as you often get stuck or lose lives and so scores are nearly fixed by which level you can get through to. So Galaforce is also not a favourite of mine at all. I prefer games that are a bit more open in what can be done, with randomness, Meteors has it a bit but Planetoid is one of the best because the difficulty curve is perfect and playing it gives an adrenaline rush even when not reaching a new high score...

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby CMcDougall » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:57 pm

Had this BITD but never played due to keys FFS what a combination #-o
Always played Moon Raider (hence the 'piggy' in my sig) & can change the keys at start =D>

so now have a sore left hand battering TAB all the time :cry:

got to level3 but no far in

best 12,850 8)
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:02 am

CMcDougall wrote:so now have a sore left hand battering TAB all the time :cry:


So I guess you'll have to go on the injured reserve list...... :shock:

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:32 am

Wouter Scholten wrote:
KarateEd wrote:Well, for me, I like this game but love Fortress. One should remember, everyone has a different way of looking at games. Sometimes, what's ultimately boring for one person is another person's charm. We all have the games we like/love. For me, I love Fortress. Not being particularily good at games probably extends the game play of some of these games to a level of interest not found by others. That's how it is with me.


Of course. For me the appeal is gone with Fortress because of 2 factors:

1) I achieved a few nearly impossible to improve upon scores in 1986, because the score is limited by the fuel on the course. Each time you go through the loop fuel depletes more quickly. I was playing perfectly (in the sense of only dying from lack of fuel) so the only way to improve is to put in a huge amount of time to get some more fuel barrels that are very hard to get. I don't want to do that, so for me the challenge is gone (and from other games played, I am sure that I could achieve the same scores again now, so playing it to show to myself "I can still do it" is also not a reason to play it again)

and:

2) there is no randomness, always the same rockets go up and always the planes are in the same position.

Point 2 also goes for Rocket raid although I didn't master that (as I usually lost/lose a life at the end of the maze) but it has 2 other issues:

a) no increase in difficulty the next time going through the loop. Fuel doesn't seem to be depleting faster either, but perhaps it does and will become clear only at later rounds through the loop?
b) The maze level has such a hard ending that the rest of the game is only preparation for that. It is a bit as with Galaforce (not Galaforce 2), which is too hard at certain points (esp. level 3) which takes the fun out of it as you often get stuck or lose lives and so scores are nearly fixed by which level you can get through to. So Galaforce is also not a favourite of mine at all. I prefer games that are a bit more open in what can be done, with randomness, Meteors has it a bit but Planetoid is one of the best because the difficulty curve is perfect and playing it gives an adrenaline rush even when not reaching a new high score...


These are all valid points..... FOR YOU. It depends on the individual as to what they will like in games. There is a reason why so many types of games are made. It's not because that's all the developers know what to make but more the personality of the people buying the games that they get 'hooked' on..... so yes, your points are vaild for a person of your personality and anyone else near enough to your type of personality.

For me, and I'm sure many others, these games we play, like Rocket Raid or Fortress or Chuckie Egg all have their merit for that type or those types of personalities.

Really, there's no argument to be had here as all this depends really on individual personalities. While running this Challenge, I've learned that certain people like certain games. Definitely some of them are not my cup of tea, in fact most I've never played before. To me, the real value of this competition isn't the actual competition..... it's discovering those games I've never played and because it's 2 weeks of intensive playing, when time permits, I get to learn that game and in so doing, decide if I like it or not. I would say that about 70% of the games, I've thoroughly enjoyed, the rest, I could live without..... but I respect your opinion because I know there are others out there that likely think that way too.

I don't choose the games, btw..... you guys do that, so put in some games in the next round and hopefully I'll get to learn better what you like. It won't help you much, but it will help me.

I think it's valuable to have people's reactions to games just to know where we sit with what we play and maybe one day if I'm educated enough, we can omit certain games based on popular opinion for omission.

Remember that once this champion round is done, we'll take the following few weeks off to choose 3 games each and start up the next series of round on September 4th.

Until then, happy gaming.....and your scores are crazy wild btw.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:41 am

Ok, I'm having some fun but not getting much further..... yet!

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:53 am

High Score Table Updated......

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby Wouter Scholten » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:42 pm

KarateEd wrote:These are all valid points..... FOR YOU.


Re-read what I wrote... As that point is clearly made. But I have some general criticism of various games that is part of what you may call my 'review' of these games which is generally valid.

As to choice of games, I don't mind which ones are chosen...

KarateEd wrote:Until then, happy gaming.....and your scores are crazy wild btw.


Some are quite good but others, hmm, I tried a bit of rocket raid yesterday and got to 59k, still not mastered the end of the maze and ran into a wall too, but then tried Meteors, damn that's hard. The guy who listed a 488k score for Planetoid (so that's for me no problem) in AU in 1984, also has a 73k score with Meteors, and I'm getting nowhere close to that... (this night just 22k). I briefly tried Killer Gorilla too this night and that score of 836k in AU is very very very distant...

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:34 pm

Wouter Scholten wrote:
KarateEd wrote:These are all valid points..... FOR YOU.


Re-read what I wrote... As that point is clearly made. But I have some general criticism of various games that is part of what you may call my 'review' of these games which is generally valid.


My apologies, I missed that nuance..... should have read more carefully..... so I think we are in agreement. I love it when things work out nicely.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:55 pm

A tad better.....

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby Pablos544 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:17 pm

KarateEd wrote:A tad better.....

Ed...... :-)


Whoa :o big up the KarateEd

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:18 pm

Pablos544 wrote:
KarateEd wrote:A tad better.....

Ed...... :-)


Whoa :o big up the KarateEd


I got lucky. I really should be able to go much further. I know I used to be able to. I could get past the maze right through even the last part that's difficult but on the emulator the forward/back keys aren't working like the Beeb for this game. They are too sensitive and seem to be keeping keystrokes in the buffer so I crash and burn just after getting into the maze.

I may have to break out my Master just to try it on that.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby FourthStone » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:24 pm

KarateEd wrote:I got lucky. I really should be able to go much further. I know I used to be able to. I could get past the maze right through even the last part that's difficult but on the emulator the forward/back keys aren't working like the Beeb for this game. They are too sensitive and seem to be keeping keystrokes in the buffer so I crash and burn just after getting into the maze.

I may have to break out my Master just to try it on that.

Ed...... :-)


I second this, I practiced just the maze with the help of save states and it just seems impossible on BeebEm, it's the last section of the maze where it's constant forward and reverse moves that I just cannot keep up with.

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:39 am

FourthStone wrote:
KarateEd wrote:I got lucky. I really should be able to go much further. I know I used to be able to. I could get past the maze right through even the last part that's difficult but on the emulator the forward/back keys aren't working like the Beeb for this game. They are too sensitive and seem to be keeping keystrokes in the buffer so I crash and burn just after getting into the maze.

I may have to break out my Master just to try it on that.

Ed...... :-)


I second this, I practiced just the maze with the help of save states and it just seems impossible on BeebEm, it's the last section of the maze where it's constant forward and reverse moves that I just cannot keep up with.


Nope, tried it and I'm too messed up with the keys that I've been using. For a program like this they should have allowed for whatever keystrokes the user wanted. Oh well, even with my own keystrokes, it's not an easy game.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby JoolsH » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:20 pm

Not got a lot of time for this game, unfortunately.

As previously mentioned, what awful controls! Had to break out the old "Model B" emulator that's nice and flexible in having custom key mappings.

Got to stage 5 so far, not completed it yet.

18,340
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby FourthStone » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:31 am

Probably about the best I'll post, can't seem to get through the maze and this score is about the most I can contrive with other play styles.

Good luck for the final days!

Score: 45220
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby JoolsH » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:11 pm

Didn't get any further, but got a higher score.

25,310
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:46 am

I've figured out there is a glitch with the key mappings. Sometimes for no reason the keys seem to work together to get an entirely wrong direction for the plane, at other times it seems like the keyboard buffer is holding old keystrokes which plays havoc on the next go that you just failed at.

Altogether, I'm not sure how to get a good key mapping that doesn't do this. Too bad because I know if it was working correctly I would solve the maze. I have done so in the past with the proper key presses just I dislike those so much I thought with the emulator, it would be nice to have a different approach. ah well, next time I'll stick to the correct keystrokes because something is certainly fighting being changed for keystrokes in this game.

I think I'm pretty much done with this one now.

Ed.....:-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby Wouter Scholten » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:06 pm

KarateEd wrote:I've figured out there is a glitch with the key mappings. Sometimes for no reason the keys seem to work together to get an entirely wrong direction for the plane, at other times it seems like the keyboard buffer is holding old keystrokes which plays havoc on the next go that you just failed at.

Altogether, I'm not sure how to get a good key mapping that doesn't do this. Too bad because I know if it was working correctly I would solve the maze. I have done so in the past with the proper key presses just I dislike those so much I thought with the emulator, it would be nice to have a different approach. ah well, next time I'll stick to the correct keystrokes because something is certainly fighting being changed for keystrokes in this game.

I think I'm pretty much done with this one now.

Ed.....:-)



Could this be about a hardware issue, of multiple keys combining to others? The same key combinations are then always the same that generate a new key that is not actually pressed, when they are pressed together. That is possible on the BBC too (I think with 3 keys, I experimented with it to see what's going in ca. 1995 I think it was) though it's worse on my IBM keyboard on the PC and then you indeed need to select some keys that are not generated by others that are/can be often pressed together.

I had a few more sessions and I got through the end of the maze once without losing a life but flew into walls at other places. I'm close to mastering it but I will try to go for the beebgames score another time. Best so far 64660.
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:59 pm

You're probably right on the keys Wouter. Nice score...... I had the maze mastered at one time but I'm not even close right now, mostly due to keystroke issues, not actual strategy. I know how to get through, just can't physically do it due to keys being so unpredictable right now but it's ok, not going to lose any sleep over it. Once I get my Beeb fixed I may just give it a go on it as it plays better than my Master.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:14 pm

Ok, one more for the road.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby ctr » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:20 pm

After more than thirty years I finally completed a raid! I am absurdly pleased. Then I had no spare lives and died on level 2 (duh!) so I only scored 21,220. There seem to be no points for finishing.

Image

My best score of 25,030 was achieved by dying early.

Image

There is definitely something up with the keys on beebem. I remapped space to ? because my tiny laptop spacebar is nowhere near the shift key. I have to be careful to release shift (fly forward) before pressing ? (fly back) otherwise there is sometimes a significant delay after releasing shift before the ? takes effect. But not always. It's not a three-key rollover problem though.
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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:20 pm

Don't really think I'm getting higher than this one and that's about right since FourthStone and I have been neck and neck in the competition so this is appropriate to finish this way.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:24 pm

ctr wrote:There is definitely something up with the keys on beebem. I remapped space to ? because my tiny laptop spacebar is nowhere near the shift key. I have to be careful to release shift (fly forward) before pressing ? (fly back) otherwise there is sometimes a significant delay after releasing shift before the ? takes effect. But not always. It's not a three-key rollover problem though.


These are exactly the symptoms that I've been facing and it's extremely frustrating because it should be a bit smoother. I'm not sure if it's an emulator issue or if it happens in hardware too. I played this on real hardware last time it was part of the challenge and was able to get past the maze part with relative ease however I'm unable to get very far through the maze at all since the keys are botched.

Ed...... :-)

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Re: High Score Challenge S7- Champ - Rocket Raid

Postby KarateEd » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:33 pm

High Score Table Updated......

Ed...... :-)


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