if you make me mad, i will

on-topic Acorn-related news and discussions not covered by the other forums
duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

if you make me mad, i will

Postby duikkie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:10 pm

i realy hate the *menu that use d.games as datafile with windows access

can someone make a txt file of the stupid thing so i can see

which file from which *din is loading :twisted:

it is not long of i make my own *menu with a normal datafile so you can read it , and change it normal :twisted:
Last edited by duikkie on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 1823
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby tricky » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:25 pm

It may not help, but I think if the disc isn't there, it tells you, so a beeb.mmb with only the menu could be used to find out the disc number.
SmartSPI supports multiple archives, so you could have them on the same SD card :)

Commie_User
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby Commie_User » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:12 pm

If we're talking MMB, what I do is load my .MMB image into MMB IMAGER on the PC and take a screenshot of the layout. You can then paste from the clipboard in Paint or whatever.

Prt Sc / SysRq is a wonderful button even now and the result is quick, dirty and lovely! In this example, there's a menu to load into the BBC anyway but other disk images have more sensible names.
Attachments
MMC list.png

Commie_User
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby Commie_User » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:19 pm

PS: What does the topic title mean?

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 1163
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby lurkio » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:15 am

duikkie wrote:i realy hate the *menu that use d.games as datafile with windows access
can someone make a txt file of the stupid thing so i can see

The textfile D.GAMESDB.TXT is in games_menu_source.zip at https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/bbc/mmbeeb/#gamesmenu:


duikkie wrote:which file from which *din is loading

I can't easily add all the DIN numbers.

duikkie wrote:it is not long of i make my own *menu with a normal datafile so you can read it , and change it normal

Do it!

:idea:

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby duikkie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:20 am

is there a hexviewer for windows txt files , because the usefull info about whitch din and so is not showed , i see ??? or blocks :cry:

the problem with a new program is , that i try to be back compettible , but the damed d.gamedb and reading in 6502 program like *menu is onlogical . the only thing you need is tittle, house?, which din and which program to run. who gives a sh*t , how the disc-tittle is called and so on.it is all scrambled in d.gamesdb.

the only trouble with making a new/old program is time and the use of it. :roll: :cry:



lurkio wrote:
duikkie wrote:i realy hate the *menu that use d.games as datafile with windows access
can someone make a txt file of the stupid thing so i can see

The textfile D.GAMESDB.TXT is in games_menu_source.zip at https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/bbc/mmbeeb/#gamesmenu:

    D.GAMESDB.TXT

duikkie wrote:which file from which *din is loading

I can't easily add all the DIN numbers.

duikkie wrote:it is not long of i make my own *menu with a normal datafile so you can read it , and change it normal

Do it!

:idea:

User avatar
jonb
Posts: 2052
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: South Coast of England

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby jonb » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:23 am

Notepad++ has a hex editor plugin.

Or.. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hex+e ... or+windows

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby duikkie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:35 am

notepad is from bill gates ? , because it is not workeble :evil:
but i did found a normal useble free hex editor neo ( prob version i think)
with normal layout left hex , right the text.

the file d.gamedb.txt is not right i think !!!
because it only shows 09 09 03 03 03 03 0303 or something like that for every file

and d.games is made by that stupid window access program

so who can make a picture of d.games in access what shows the hole line after a game ?



jonb wrote:Notepad++ has a hex editor plugin.

Or.. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=hex+e ... or+windows

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby duikkie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:37 am

better :)
Commie_User wrote:PS: What does the topic title mean?

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 1163
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby lurkio » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:31 am

duikkie wrote:so who can make a picture of d.games in access what shows the hole line after a game ?

Try this:

(The SSD-title column is computed, so some of the values might be wrong. But all the DIN-number values should be correct.)

:?:

User avatar
jonb
Posts: 2052
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 12:42 pm
Location: South Coast of England

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby jonb » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:13 pm

duikkie wrote:notepad is from bill gates ? , because it is not workeble :evil:


No, mate. Notepad++ ("Notepad-Plus-Plus"), which is open source and has a load of plug-ins like HEX editor.

https://notepad-plus-plus.org/

Windows Notepad sucks, of course.

User avatar
oss003
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:57 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby oss003 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Duikkie, I use Hexdump which works very well on all Windows 32 platforms.

http://pmansbach.com/programs/index.html

D.GAMESDB.TXT is a textfile with fields seperated by TAB ($09).
It looks like this imported in Excel as Textfile with seperator TAB.

Greetings
Kees
Attachments
games.png

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby duikkie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:58 pm

thats the problem :shock:
yie ... in your mmb-games-dins.csv it it

YIE-AR in din 136,137

but the *menu gives you file not found , we talked about the - and _ but only disc/din 137 can be fixed that way
*din 136 i think part2 you can change YIE-AR what you like file not found still in the menu, the d.games file says 136 din
but if you put a YIE-AR in *din 2 (two) in *menu it is not more file not found

so there is a different d.games as txt or what ever and the d.games datafile that *menu use in din 0

and because of the d.games made in windows access only a few know what really is going on :cry:


lurkio wrote:
duikkie wrote:so who can make a picture of d.games in access what shows the hole line after a game ?

Try this:

    MMB-games-DINs.csv
(The SSD-title column is computed, so some of the values might be wrong. But all the DIN-number values should be correct.)

:?:

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby duikkie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:16 pm

with a little help of my wife who is 10 years younger i can now read the csv bestand in normal format in exel

still Yie in 136 and 137 thats true , but not in d.games on *din0 ??

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 1163
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby lurkio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:22 am

duikkie wrote:YIE-AR in din 136,137 but the *menu gives you file not found , we talked about the - and _ but only disc/din 137 can be fixed that way

I think that you might be wrong. See here:

:arrow:

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby duikkie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:14 am

i will try that , but i think maybe my d.games on *din 0 is different ?
can you upload your *din 0 with d.games ?

lurkio wrote:
duikkie wrote:YIE-AR in din 136,137 but the *menu gives you file not found , we talked about the - and _ but only disc/din 137 can be fixed that way

I think that you might be wrong. See here:

:arrow:

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 1163
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby lurkio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:11 am

duikkie wrote:i will try that , but i think maybe my d.games on *din 0 is different ?
can you upload your *din 0 with d.games ?

I'm using this BEEB.MMB file:


Here's *DIN 0:


Did you try this?:


(I'm using BeebEm to test, with mmbeeb.dll and DFSMMB.ROM and this BEEB.MMB file.)

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me made i will

Postby duikkie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:47 pm

very strange problem i still need the YIE-AR in din 2 ???

i don't have and other mmb rom so i don't no if it is a smart-spi rom problem #-o

so far i know this is the only game that do this ???

with *run menu -p it says no din and yie is almost the same and is running normaal from din 137

PROBLEM ??



lurkio wrote:
duikkie wrote:i will try that , but i think maybe my d.games on *din 0 is different ?
can you upload your *din 0 with d.games ?

I'm using this BEEB.MMB file:


Here's *DIN 0:

    MENU.ssd.zip

Did you try this?:

:idea:

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby duikkie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:03 pm

very,very very very, did a say very ? strange problem

if your sd card if formatted in FAT no problems with *din 136 YIE-AR.

if you chain"YIE-AR" in *din 136 no problems with loading in FAT32 ???

so i think the *menu program from *din is doing something what f*ck up the &d00-&1100 area or something else

i have no clue yet, it is only this game so far that gives this problem

i did use suprom (super rom) , but that has only fat and less :) but no problems there sane as smart-spi with fat

User avatar
lurkio
Posts: 1163
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:30 pm
Location: Doomawangara
Contact:

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby lurkio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:35 pm

This is a nightmare!

I don't understand FAT/FAT32 etc.

:(

Commie_User
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby Commie_User » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:56 pm

You're missing nothing. These are variations on a PC disk formatting protocol from the dank days of DOS. Simple enough to set up when you know what you're doing, though, but in the 80s it was more of a nightmare.

These days, you typically use it from within Windows to format other data devices. Right-click and format in whatever you like. MMC needs a certain way but that's in the instructions.

Though the head scratcher for me is how someone made the MMC work with ordinary SD cards because the instructions are adamant that you use MMC cards only for the disk image mounter.

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby duikkie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:05 am

It is all about protocols mmc or sd cards use spi protocol a sd card without spi do not work !
Sd cards work on 3.3 volt nearby the 5 volt what is used by bbc computers and most acorn ports
then you have the hard disk protocal /dos

it is mostly low level
most window users stick at high level and use drivers :)

It is not that hard to hang anything on a bbc computer port . Follow protocol and anything is possible.

reading stuff:
http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/ ... 054618.pdf

physical layer SIMPLIFIED specfication version 4.1 link is 1.1
but rember the word SIMPLE :)( other word for dummies ?)

http://read.pudn.com/downloads59/source ... cation.pdf

little higher is the fat

https://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/linux/fs/fat/fat.html#toc1

so i don't understand why not everybody can read this, sometimes they make it simple :)
nothing indicate that it is ahead scrather #-o

after reading it 10 times , it slowly becomes clear.

it will make you mad that the first time it was not clear to you, because it is so simple !! ( if you understand it)






Commie_User wrote:You're missing nothing. These are variations on a PC disk formatting protocol from the dank days of DOS. Simple enough to set up when you know what you're doing, though, but in the 80s it was more of a nightmare.

These days, you typically use it from within Windows to format other data devices. Right-click and format in whatever you like. MMC needs a certain way but that's in the instructions.

Though the head scratcher for me is how someone made the MMC work with ordinary SD cards because the instructions are adamant that you use MMC cards only for the disk image mounter.

Commie_User
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby Commie_User » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:09 pm

Hmmm. I had a look but it's mostly way over my head. I understood your reply, which is all I needed! :D

Perhaps I should also mention a tool in the MMC pack, which allows a disk filename search across all the disk images on the BBC itself. I've used it and it's been quite handy.

Commodore
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:56 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:26 pm

Sorry for causing all you guys such a headache, and thank you for solving the problem.

This really is a great forum full of friendly and helpful people.

I'm not much help at programming, but if any of you ever need anything testing on a real BBC Micro, then I'd be happy to help.

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby duikkie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:43 am

problems stimulate the mind. if nothing goes wrong you get stupid people. :shock:

i think most people here have real old computers ( most of them more then one :roll: )

you are never to old to learn programming the 6502 with bbc, it is very easy
you open in basic < and you are in assemble mode > close it :)
start with vdu calls and printing a letter : with JSR &FFEE



Commodore wrote:Sorry for causing all you guys such a headache, and thank you for solving the problem.

This really is a great forum full of friendly and helpful people.

I'm not much help at programming, but if any of you ever need anything testing on a real BBC Micro, then I'd be happy to help.

Commodore
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:56 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:22 pm

duikkie wrote:problems stimulate the mind. if nothing goes wrong you get stupid people. :shock:

i think most people here have real old computers ( most of them more then one :roll: )

you are never to old to learn programming the 6502 with bbc, it is very easy
you open in basic < and you are in assemble mode > close it :)
start with vdu calls and printing a letter : with JSR &FFEE


Thanks Duikkie, that's great, and thank you for the encouragement.

How then, for instance would I write the Hello World program in 6502?
Sorry for such a dumb question, but I literally know nothing, and I have to start somewhere.

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 1823
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby tricky » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:42 pm

I just find this on mdfs.net

Code: Select all

10FOR A=0 TO 3 STEP 3
   20P%=&900
   30[OPT A
   40LDX #0
   50.LP
   60LDA MSG,X
   70BEQ FIN
   80JSR &FFEE
   90INX
  100BNE LP
  110.FIN
  120RTS
  130.MSG
  140EQUS "HELLO"
  150EQUB 13
  160EQUB 10
  170BRK
  180]
  190NEXT


I'll leave it as an exercise to add the world.

You could add line 200 CALL &900

Commie_User
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:50 am

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby Commie_User » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:14 pm

You go through all that just to print HELLO??

I had the idea that assembler was both quicker and more concise. I suppose it still must be if you're doing a lot more complicated things in the same space.

It's faster anyway but I think there's more need for assembler on the Commodore machines than the BBCs, as the 64 had a WAY less capable BASIC and more whizzo features you needed assembler to properly unlock.
Last edited by Commie_User on Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
danielj
Posts: 5151
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby danielj » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:25 pm

Remember, each of those instructions ends up being just two or three bytes long once assembled, and executes in two or three processor cycles (of which there are 2000 every second)!

d.

duikkie
Posts: 2664
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: if you make me mad, i will

Postby duikkie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:27 pm

this is a nice loop , to print what every you want. and is not simple to start with.

lda #73
jsr &ffee
lda #70
jsr &ffee
lda #76
jsr &ffee
jsr &ffee
lda #80
jsr &ffee

is also hello if i count well :)


Commie_User wrote:You go through all that just to print HELLO??

I had the idea that assembler was both quicker and more concise. I suppose it still must be if you're doing a lot more complicated things in the same space.


Return to “general”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest