Graphic Adventure Creator

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AndyF
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Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby AndyF » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:43 am

OK, we do have a version of this already in the archive here however it suffers from an infinite reboot concern sometimes. I think this might be a 1770 vs 8271 issue but not sure.

Here is another one, the disc version I have acquired a few months ago which appears fine:

Graphic_Adventure_Creator_BBC_Disc_Version.zip
(56.03 KiB) Downloaded 101 times


The .zip contains an .ssd I put together for convenience and the original .inf files too.

You can load the default built in test adventure by loading the GAC then loading "Advman" if you want.

Regarding documentation, we appear to only have a .txt file if I remember correctly.

I don't have a scanner. I do have a .pdf of the Amstrad version which is essentially the same minus the loading instructions (Lenslock protector) and the graphics controls. I also have the original spectrum manual (as I brought this new at the time for a lot of money back then)

For our situation here: I do have a tape manual for the Beeb however as I purchased it a few months back, and all we need from that is me to type up the graphics controls really at some point.

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Arcadian
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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Arcadian » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:18 pm

Scans of the manual are available here
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

Image
ABug NORTH (Manchester) (19-21 January 2018)
ABug SOUTH (Hampshire) (1-3 June 2018)

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AndyF
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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby AndyF » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:19 pm

Arcadian wrote:Scans of the manual are available here


lol and I purchased the tape version from Ebay merely to get ahold of the graphics instructions section of the manual too... :oops:

Dave, my Quill hunt continues too ;)

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richardtoohey
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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby richardtoohey » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:07 pm

I've got my original boxed BBC B 5.25" disc with manual if required (for scanning)- but sounds like already online ... and I've still got to finish my Basicode 2 manual scanning!

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby videofx » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:26 am

I was going to buy it on Ebay for the manual also :)

I am also looking for Quill

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AndyF
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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby AndyF » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:25 am

videofx wrote:I was going to buy it on Ebay for the manual also :)

I am also looking for Quill


Tape versions are easy to find of the Quill, the disc version is very elusive unfortunately. There are patched tape versions but they are not the same, the menu is slightly different with the genuine disc version too. :)

Not sure what to do about GAC docs as we appear to have them (the images linked to above) including the graphics section.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:55 pm

Couldn't find the manual for the Beeb version of Graphic Adventure Creator (GAC), by Incentive, anywhere online, but I did manage to find the manual for The Adventure Creator (AC) for BBC Micro and Acorn Electron.

AC can do multi-part games, but GAC can't.*

AC is tape-only, whereas GAC runs on disc.

Plus, AC is text only -- doesn't do graphics.


The AC manual is also available as a scan, here:

:idea:

* But see here: http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9465&p=153025#p153025

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:20 pm

AndyF wrote:OK, we do have a version of this already in the archive here however it suffers from an infinite reboot concern sometimes. I think this might be a 1770 vs 8271 issue but not sure.

Commodore wrote:Tried GAC on STH, it doesn't work. The intro screen just keeps cycling. I'll have to try it from elsewhere.

Commodore, I presume you're using this disc-image?

What are you running it on?

It seems to work fine for me (in BeebEm).

:?:

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:30 am

Hi Lurkio, thanks for all your help (again!).
I tried running it on my actual BBC Computer. Like I said, the welcome screen just keeps cycling and none of the numbered key responses do anything.

So if I put my SD card in the PC and drag and drop the other version of GAC on here into MMBImager and then onto the card, its should hopefully work?
I don't need any boot file or menu file or anything?

I was using the image on STH as provided to me by Lardo Boffin on my introduction thread.
I could also try the image you posted here too, in case of differences.

Tomorrow or Tuesday,I should get up the loft and find GAC for Spectrum and C64, for which I should also have the manuals, which may also help people here.

Thanks for the info on AC, that also looks good. I may try text first. May be a good way to plan the game.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:41 am

Commodore wrote:... I was using the image on STH as provided to me by Lardo Boffin on my introduction thread ... I tried running it on my actual BBC Computer. Like I said, the welcome screen just keeps cycling and none of the numbered key responses do anything.

Can you try booting manually instead of going via the STH/MMC menus?

So, instead of switching the Beeb on and pressing Shift-Break, just switch the Beeb on and type *DIN 131 and then type *EXEC !BOOT

What happens?


UPDATE: I can't test on real hardware at the moment, but by using the same BEEB.MMB file that you got from Lardo Boffin, I managed to set up BeebEm (Windows) so that it emulated an MMBEEB filesystem (using these instructions), and I was successfully able to get GAC running!


Commodore wrote:So if I put my SD card in the PC and drag and drop the other version of GAC on here into MMBImager and then onto the card, its should hopefully work? I don't need any boot file or menu file or anything?

You need to download the zip file that AndyF posted at the top of this thread. You'll need to unzip it, locate the .SSD inside it, and drag the .SSD onto a spare slot inside MMB Imager, making a note of the slot number. Then, on the Beeb, *DIN slot_number and then *EXEC !BOOT

:?:

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:18 pm

Thanks Lurkio. You are better than brilliant.
I shall give this a go after work tomorrow probably, when I have a bit of peace and quiet.

As a matter of interest, how much memory does GAC leave you for the adventure?

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:34 pm

UPDATE:

I tried the existing file with *DIN131, and then *BOOT!EXEC

The disk menu loaded fine, so I pressed A, and I got the same problem as before.

Hope this doesn't indicate a problem with my Beeb - unlikely I'd have thought. Maybe it could be because I have Basic version 1?

Anyway, I'll try the other one now.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:35 pm

Commodore wrote:As a matter of interest, how much memory does GAC leave you for the adventure?

15185 bytes. Which is less than AC, which leaves you 17294.

Commodore wrote:Hope this doesn't indicate a problem with my Beeb - unlikely I'd have thought. Maybe it could be because I have Basic version 1?

Ah, yes, you want to get that replaced with BASIC 2, ASAP! It'll help with more than just GAC!

:idea:

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:46 pm

This is driving me nuts now, but I'm probably doing something wrong.

I unzip the files higher up, and open it with MMBIMager. I can then see several Disk Files.
Then I open MMBImager on the SD Card, select all of the GAC files and try to drag and drop onto a vacant slot. They all go except a few, and i get error 75. I then clear that on the SD card and try drag and drop each file separately, unfortunately there are about 3 that won't go, even if I unlock them.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:48 pm

lurkio wrote:
Commodore wrote:As a matter of interest, how much memory does GAC leave you for the adventure?

15185 bytes. Which is less than AC, which leaves you 17294.


So about 16K and 18K respectively then. That's room for a decent sized adventure.


Ah, yes, you want to get that replaced with BASIC 2, ASAP! It'll help with more than just GAC! :idea:


Hopefully that's it then! I'd better get on to it. Is it an easy thing to swap?

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:53 pm

Commodore wrote:This is driving me nuts now, but I'm probably doing something wrong.

I unzip the files higher up, and open it with MMBIMager. I can then see several Disk Files.
Then I open MMBImager on the SD Card, select all of the GAC files and try to drag and drop onto a vacant slot. They all go except a few, and i get error 75. I then clear that on the SD card and try drag and drop each file separately, unfortunately there are about 3 that won't go, even if I unlock them.

Check your PMs (private messages).

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:57 pm

Well, there has been some progress.

I remembered you previously suggesting try dragging to desktop first, so I tried it, and then dragged it to a spare slot. I then went and tried on the Beeb, and Hey Presto, that part of it worked, so I'm pleased. Unfortunately, the same problem persists with GAC, so hopefully it's the BASIC chip.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:01 pm

Lurkio, I tried sending you a PM, but I don't think it went, maybe as I am a newish member.
Anyway, many thanks for your message, it helped me to see where I had been going wrong.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby richardtoohey » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:49 am

lurkio wrote:Couldn't find the manual for the Beeb version of Graphic Adventure Creator (GAC), by Incentive, anywhere online
Is that still the case ... I've just dug out my GAC box from BITD and I have the manual (think I promised to image the disc for you many many months back :oops: but will try and go a bit faster scanning the manual!)

EDIT: attached incredibly poor attempt at scan, including blank first page and truncated page ends etc. Needs tidying up, rotating ,etc.) Got half-way through and the paper started to tear at the staples so went to two-page scanning. Hopefully better than nothing and might be of interest as it stands but will need to try again.
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GAC_manual_scan.pdf
(4.22 MiB) Downloaded 22 times

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby richardtoohey » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:07 am

Here's a better go of it - should be a lot more usable ... (haven't bothered with trying to copy the cover art, so if you want to see that, look at the file I posted above this one.)
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GAC_MANUAL.PDF
(3.07 MiB) Downloaded 23 times

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:25 am

That's great Richard Toohey, many thanks. I shall be printing that off sharpish, as I am now ready to get going on my adventure!
So far I had been using an online tutorial for the spectrum version, and the instructions for the C64 version. In my head, I'd done a fair bit, but when I came to start last night I couldn't get the Quick Start to load up. Maybe the Beeb doesn't have one, in 32K, maybe something had to give, but the booklet should tell me. If GAC doesn't then maybe the Adventure Creator does.

The middle pages fell out of my C64 version too!

Aha! Worked out QS now. It was actually going to be the next thing I tried!

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby richardtoohey » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:50 am

Will be interested to see how you get on ... think I had the briefest of experimentation with GAC in the 80s and then I drifted onto something else ... as usual! Attention-span of a butterfly ... ](*,)

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:46 am

I may well prove to be the same...
I have an adventure or two in mind that I want to write principally for fun, and also for my boys.

I think this would be the best way for me to get an adventure, well any game for that matter, written.

BASIC is complicated enough, but assembler is like magic spells!

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:46 pm

richardtoohey wrote:Here's a better go of it - should be a lot more usable ... (haven't bothered with trying to copy the cover art, so if you want to see that, look at the file I posted above this one.)

Thanks, Richard. (And welcome back!)

I took your PDF and, in a semi-automated way, turned it into a version where each double-page scan has been split into two individual pages:

    GAC_BBC_manual.pdf
    Manual for Graphic Adventure Creator for BBC Micro
    (3.99 MiB) Downloaded 30 times

Not sure if that helps...

:wink:

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:45 pm

It certainly helps me, thanks Lurkio. Now I can print the whole lot, double sided and make a booklet by stapling the left edge. What’s even better is due to being double size, I may not even need my reading glasses!
It’s great to have the proper manual as there are some differences between the various versions, as one would expect.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:26 am

Wow! I think I actually have made some progress with GAC at long last.

I have made 3 rooms (well one is a corridor really), included some objects, nouns, verbs. I have set some local conditions and some messages.

The adventure actually plays for a few goes. Nothing very exciting yet, but it's a start.
I'm not sure if I'll bother with pictures or not. I have some ideas, but there could be at least some locations where I don't bother; but I still want my game to be tidy. That is, it bothers me to see a whole screen filled with text. If I wanted a clear screen at least after every new room, could I do it by saving a blank picture and giving it a number, and then associating that "picture" with the room?
I should really just try it.
I was getting a little disheartened, but now I have made some rooms with connections and local conditions, I feel more encouraged again.

One other thing. I don't seem to be able to get GAC to understand that there can be two or more connections from a room. Am I doing something wrong? One way I could think of doing it is to have duplicate rooms but with different numbers, then that way they can connect to each other. I suspect there is an easier way and I have missed something.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:32 am

Commodore wrote:I'm not sure if I'll bother with pictures or not.

It might be more trouble than it's worth unless you're a really good artist -- and even if you are, GAC's picture editor isn't very user-friendly. Plus, the drawing algorithm's not exactly speedy, so displaying any graphics really slows the gameplay down. Also, the more graphics, the less room in memory for the actual adventure. And when there aren't any graphics in your game, GAC switches to MODE 7, which is a better mode for displaying text than any of the bitmapped graphics modes.

(You can make sure you're not using any graphics -- i.e. your game is text only -- by creating an "empty" graphics data file. I think the manual shows you how.)

Commodore wrote:I have some ideas, but there could be at least some locations where I don't bother; but I still want my game to be tidy. That is, it bothers me to see a whole screen filled with text. If I wanted a clear screen at least after every new room, could I do it by saving a blank picture and giving it a number, and then associating that "picture" with the room?

No. GAC should automatically clear the screen whenever the player enters a room. (You should test this by exporting your adventure as a standalone game and then running it after a reboot. Don't just test your game only within the GAC editor environment -- the behaviour is subtly different there!)

Commodore wrote:One other thing. I don't seem to be able to get GAC to understand that there can be two or more connections from a room. Am I doing something wrong?

You must be. Show me what you're trying to do.

Commodore wrote:One way I could think of doing it is to have duplicate rooms but with different numbers

Definitely don't do that! What if the player drops an object in the first copy of the room and then later wanders into the second copy of the room and finds that the object "isn't there any more"..?!

:idea:

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:45 am

Ah yes, a good point about duplicate rooms!

As for the connections it will ask:

Connections are:

I will type for instance:

E 3, and it accepts it.

If I try typing E 3, W 4

I get : I don't understand, so I must be doing something wrong. I have actually read the manual cover to cover more than once, but I'd be lying if I said it had all sunk in,so I could well have missed that part.

I'm pretty sure now I'll have this as good old text only, they don't make 'em how they used to!
Good to know that GAC does clear the screen, as it was looking very untidy in "test" conditions.

Thank you again for your help Lurkio.

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby lurkio » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:49 am

Commodore wrote:If I try typing E 3, W 4
I get : I don't understand

Off the top of my head, I think you should delete the comma.

:?:

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Re: Graphic Adventure Creator

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:58 am

Thanks Lurkio, it worked. The one thing that I didn't try!


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