LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

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Garrettimus
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby Garrettimus » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:30 pm

I use the LG 1721A LCD with my classic computers. It works fine with 15 Khz RGB. In fact, I got 3 of those! :D

Image

Here's a video I did some time ago. It shows the picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLk3eMjYRdo

Anyway, in spite of the LCD monitors, I'd like pretty much to own a CUB RGB one. :D

Loads of infos here on the LG 1721A & LG 1921A (in Portuguese):
http://www.victortrucco.com/Diversos/Mo ... M1921A.asp

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Garrettimus
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby Garrettimus » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:32 pm

videofx wrote:Can't test until sometime this week. My BBC Master128 ships from the UK on Monday FedEx so should be 3 or 4 days and I am waiting for the Ebay seller to ship the DVS204. So hopefully next weekend I will be able to play :)

I am looking for the complete CP/M kit for the Beeb. I am still reading to see what else is available.

Videofx, are there many BBC Micro owners in America? In my country, as far as I know, I'm the only Beeb enthusiast.

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Garrettimus
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby Garrettimus » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:18 pm

I took these the other day.

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sorvad
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby sorvad » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:45 pm

Looking good there. I bought Lancelot back in the day.

iainjh
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby iainjh » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:25 pm

I now have an 8220 v3 board. Seems a pretty good picture from the off without any flashes or odd pixels as others reported.

adjustments will be needed to centre the image and also shift a block of odd screen corruption off; but thats clearly in the overscan area, so I'm already happy that it works as it does.

However I also bought a 12pin connector to VGA (intending to mount a d-sub on the rear of the master's case to be neat) and its not providing any output from that at all... so I guess that plug's not wired right. Just to check, has anyone tried output from P12 or P14?

ps as I have to rewire this cable, i note on the 8220 p12 and p14 plugs, it points out r g b h and v (but not ground)...are these 5 signals all i need to drive a vga monitor?

ta

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby sweh » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:40 am

iainjh wrote:I now have an 8220 v3 board. Seems a pretty good picture from the off without any flashes or odd pixels as others reported.

FWIW, I saw these white spots with a v4 board... but only when I used a 5V1A power supply. When I used a 5V3A supply then those dots disappeared, so I think they might be a consequence of under-power.
Rgds
Stephen

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danielj
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby danielj » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:56 am

sweh wrote:FWIW, I saw these white spots with a v4 board... but only when I used a 5V1A power supply. When I used a 5V3A supply then those dots disappeared, so I think they might be a consequence of under-power.


I get them on an V4.0 when the geometry's wrong using a 400W PC power supply so I think it's probably more down to the quality of the supply than the power it's chucking out.

d.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby danielj » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:03 pm

So, big thanks to Mark for the spot, now up and running with a proper video scaler (Extron). Only have a cable that works with an atom at the moment, and honestly the sharpest picture I've EVER seen out of one (another hat tip to Prime there for his excellent colour board).

I am slightly flummoxed though, I would have thought it would deal perfectly well with the output from my A3020 in 15kHz modes through a straight VGA cable (set to multi sync, flip the scaler to RGBS when in 15kHz modes). Get absolutely nothing. Am I missing something blindingly obvious? Are some wires missing in my VGA cable? Does A3020 to multi sync need a different cable?

I'm sure someone knows what I'm doing wrong :)

Cheers,

d.

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby retroclinic » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:13 pm

Hi.

Glad you're up and running. The DVS204 should be able to scale the 15kHz modes, but you must set the 3020 to the correct sync and monitor type, which for the life of me I can't now remember, it's:

*CONF.MONITORTYPE xx
*CONF.SYNC xx

With the xx's set to ?? Try 0 and 0 respectively? If they're on Auto the 3020 may try to be intelligent, and #fail.

Also, the 204 can't handle anything else apart from 15kHz on the RGBS scaling option, if you want one that will scale anything to anything Arcwise, you'll need a 304, but that doesn't scale the Model B very well - well to be precise, it actually sclaes it TOO well, and the interlace can be very annoying. I have both setup on the testbench, as the 304 is very useful to just stick a widescreen monitor on the output, and then the input can be plugged into an arc, and it will show whatever screenmode the arc is putting out, in either 4:3 or 16:9 depending on how you set it up.

Mark.
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danielj
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby danielj » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:29 pm

retroclinic wrote:Hi.
Glad you're up and running. The DVS204 should be able to scale the 15kHz modes, but you must set the 3020 to the correct sync and monitor type, which for the life of me I can't now remember, it's:

*CONF.MONITORTYPE xx
*CONF.SYNC xx

With the xx's set to ?? Try 0 and 0 respectively? If they're on Auto the 3020 may try to be intelligent, and #fail.

Also, the 204 can't handle anything else apart from 15kHz on the RGBS scaling option, if you want one that will scale anything to anything Arcwise, you'll need a 304, but that doesn't scale the Model B very well - well to be precise, it actually sclaes it TOO well, and the interlace can be very annoying. I have both setup on the testbench, as the 304 is very useful to just stick a widescreen monitor on the output, and then the input can be plugged into an arc, and it will show whatever screenmode the arc is putting out, in either 4:3 or 16:9 depending on how you set it up.



Ah, not set the sync up. Monitortype 1 is multi sync - I'm quite happy to flip modes on the extron, or just mostly run it in 15kHz modes unless I get a massive urge for a higher res desktop.

That said, *config. sync 0 doesn't seem to help the situation... Not sure what the options are there. I shall have a dig around. How should the DVS204 be set up? Just its defaults?

Cheers,
d.

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retroclinic
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby retroclinic » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:37 pm

The 204 doesn't have any input settings for input 4, apart from RGB pass thru and RGBS, so ther's nothing really to set on the scaler for it. The 304 has a lot more detailed input settings.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby danielj » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:40 pm

retroclinic wrote:The 204 doesn't have any input settings for input 4, apart from RGB pass thru and RGBS, so ther's nothing really to set on the scaler for it. The 304 has a lot more detailed input settings.


Ah, right, the polarities etc are output settings... No dice with anything it seems, just a blank screen. I know it's behaving as it runs happily with the Atom's output. Must be either the arc or the cable I'm using :?

d.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby retroclinic » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:39 pm

I've done a vid, demoing the A5000 running through a 304, and how it affects the picture sizes, and what setting to use on the A5000. It will be different on a 204, as it can only do 15kHz input, but if you're using an arc, you may want to think about also picking up a 304, as they can be had for similar money now they're discontinued too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lEpawjfQw

Mark.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby paulv » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:38 pm

@Mark, Nice vid. Very cool to get rid of the letterboxing =D> How well does it work with older Arc's that don't put out proper VGA scan rates?

Paul

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby retroclinic » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:50 pm

paulv wrote:@Mark, Nice vid. Very cool to get rid of the letterboxing =D> How well does it work with older Arc's that don't put out proper VGA scan rates?

Paul


It's perfect with all Arcs, and with all frequencies. It has separate memories for different scan ranges, and will recall them automatically when it detects the correct signal. You can also select memories from the web interface through ethernet, or using the Extron control software, or even telnet text commands. The Extron stuff is pretty cool in the way it works, if only they'd designed their power supplies to be more robust back then.

Mark.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby paulv » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:08 pm

retroclinic wrote:It's perfect with all Arcs, and with all frequencies.


Cool so really, an old Arc upgraded with RISC OS 3 and a 36MHz VIDC Enhancer outputting to a 304 will deliver the same display results as the A5000.

I'm wondering why you set the MonitorType to 4 rather than 1. Surely 1 being Multisync is better than 4 for the Arc/Extron config. AIUI, MonitorType 4 forces the 15KHz modes to be remapped to VGA modes at 30.1kHz or 31.5KHz depending on the presence of the 25.175MHz VIDC clock signal whereas with MonitorType 1, 15kHz modes are output at 15kHz...

Paul

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby danielj » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:47 am

Heheh. I didn't, I set it to type 1 but wasn't thinking when I was typing. Still doesn't work which is particularly odd... Wonder if there's anything odd with the arc's pinout that's flummoxing the extron, or whether the slow-mode oscillator is fubar?

:?

d.

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby retroclinic » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:33 pm

Paul, if I set it to 1, then Elite won't display without the scan converter being on, but set it to 4, and the scan converter compensates for the letterbox effect, so produces full screen in all screen modes. You can do it both ways round with the DVS304 in line.

Mark.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby paulv » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:27 pm

That's cool. So you can even do this with RISC OS 2 but it would need MonitorType 1 as it doesn't support the SVGA MonitorType. Nice to know :D

Paul

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby peterj » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:46 am

Hi All.
If you bought one of the GBS8200 or the GB8220 from China or Hong Kong.
Did anyone have to pay taxes or import duty on it.

Also what was the delivery time from ordering.

Peter

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby paulv » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:40 am

peterj wrote:If you bought one of the GBS8200 or the GB8220 from China or Hong Kong.
Did anyone have to pay taxes or import duty on it


I haven't bought one yet but anything with a value over around £15 is subject to taxes. I bought a bulk load of 3.5" DSDD floppies last month from the US and ended up paying taxes on them.

Paul

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby 1024MAK » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:17 am

peterj wrote:Hi All.
If you bought one of the GBS8200 or the GB8220 from China or Hong Kong.
Did anyone have to pay taxes or import duty on it.
Also what was the delivery time from ordering.
Peter

I have bought a V4 board and a V5 board. The V4 board I got around Christmas. The V5 board I got last month. Both were posted from Hong Kong. I did not need to pay any UK tax on either. I forget how much the V4 board was, but I paid £19.88 for the V5 board inc. P&P. I bought this one: "NEW Arcade game converter board RGB/CGA/EGA/YUV to VGA HD video converter HD9800" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170855156687 from chinatobby2011. Note that this one did not come with a booklet and also that I have not yet got around to testing it.

Indeed, so far, everything I have had from China/Hong Kong has not resulted in any UK tax even when the items cost more than £15 or the seller/sender did not bother to fully complete the CN22 customs form (most items were actually less than £10, three were more than £15, none cost more than approx £22).

I don't know how / why items with a partly completed CN22 form (or for two items, a non completed CN22 form) get through with no problems (maybe the UK does not properly staff the customs department?). With the V5 board the seller put the value on the CN22 form as $10.

Note that the big hit when you do have to pay UK tax, is when you have to pay the £8 handling fee that the Royal Mail / ParcelForce charge. So far, I have only had to pay this once (for some items from Australia bought direct from an electronic supplier).

The V5 board took 10 days from payment date to delivery date. Most items from Hong Kong / China / Singapore take about 10 to 20 days.

So far everything I have ordered from eBay that comes from Hong Kong / China / Singapore has arrived okay (>10 items). With one exception, I bought some PCB connectors and some of them were water damaged, but as the cost was low, I was not overly bothered.

Hope this helps :mrgreen:

Mark

Edited to add extra details and correct typo next to web page link :oops:
Last edited by 1024MAK on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby iainjh » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:22 am

I also think it comes down to luck and how they label the package. I bought this 8220 a month ago:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI. ... OC:GB:3160

it took 3 weeks to arrive, wasn't asked to pay any tax. I think they labelled it as something minor like "spare part" but mostly I think its luck :)

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby peterj » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:14 am

Hi All.

Thanks for all the replys, just what I thought its all down to luck.

Will be interesting to see how Marks V5 board works.

Peter

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby iainjh » Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:07 am

finally I have my 8220 fitted and working (internally squeezed into a master compact) and here's pics of the output taken on my phone. This is 1024 x 768 to a sharp 19" TV.

There's a tiny bit of blue shift'ed ghosting but looks great, no white dots etc. Certainly better than my 'B' over RGB scart to the same tv. For £20 I think its very good so far
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1024MAK
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:30 pm

A little while ago 1024MAK wrote:I notice that some sellers now have HD9800/GBS8200 V5.0 boards for sale (see here (UK) and here (USA)).
Anyone got a V5.0 yet? Does it work better?
Well after a bit of a delay whilst I was busy with other things, I have had a play with my HD9800 V5.0 board. It seems to work just as well as my GBS 8200 V4.0 board with my Electron.

At first I set the input level presets RP1, RP2 and RP3 (variable resistors/pots between the input connectors P3 and P11) to the same position as on my GBS 8200 V4.0 board.
But found that I had some white spots. However after adjusting these presets to make the picture brighter, the spots disappeared :D

I also adjusted the geometry settings so the picture fitted nicely on my ViewSonic 4:3 LCD VDU:
H Pos: 27
V Pos: 32
H Size: 74
V Size: 61
Clamp ST: 90 (default)
Clamp SP: 95 (default)

These settings are a bit interdependent on the monitor. Even more so when the picture position can be adjusted by the monitor automatically... :wink: So when trying out adjustments, make sure you have a "full" picture/display on the Beeb or Elk screen :mrgreen:

After all the fiddling, the result is a good picture :D =D>

Mark
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby VincentVega » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:15 pm

My GBS 8200/HD 9800 board arrived today. I am trying to work out what power supply it needs, so I can order one (plus all the bits to connect it to my Beeb and my ST). The plug diameter is 5.5mm. What size is the internal diameter - 1.3mm or 2.1mm?

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1024MAK
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby 1024MAK » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:52 am

It's a standard low voltage power plug, but I forget if it is a 2.1mm or a 2.5mm.
I will check it later for you.

Mark
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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby iainjh » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:00 am

my 8220 board is 2.1mm. hope that helps :)

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Re: LCD TVs and monitors for use with BBCs

Postby 1024MAK » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:19 pm

I have just checked, it is a 2.1mm/5.5mm low voltage power plug.
The inside ("tip") is positive, the outside is negative (0V / ground).
I use a 5V 2A PSU with mine, but when I measured the current, it used less than 800mA (0.8A) so I would say, a 1A PSU should be fine.
Mark
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