BeebSID

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
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sweh
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Re: BeebSID

Postby sweh » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:46 am

Acording to the Acorn Advanced Disk User Guide, pages &11->&16 are used for random file IO (page &11 is for meta-data, pages &12->&16 are one page per open file, max 5 open files) and I'd be surprised if any of the MMC variants change that. Any progran that does OPENIN/OUT/UP on a disk system shouldn't relocate to &1100 'cos it'll get clobbered.

I wonder if the software makes use of page &D? According to MM's original docs ( http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/bbc/mmbeeb/i ... DUTILS.pdf ) page &D gets used for a lot of storage. I assume Steve Picton's TurboMMC version isn't much different (As I Understand It, his biggest change was on the userport communication, speeding that up). This might clobber memory that is otherwise assumed to be free.

it also looks like zero page locations &00A0->&00A7 might also be used. These are, in theory, allocated to the NMI owner, and so not guaranteed to stay unchanged for user programs, but people might have used them.
Rgds
Stephen

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PitfallJones
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Re: BeebSID

Postby PitfallJones » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:25 am

Sorry the BeebSID Disks only work with real floppy drives because they do a *DISK command and memory clear after each song to re-init the disk system as a lot of the SIDs load in below $1900.

There was a previous thread here:

http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4029

and here:

http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2530&p=25263&hilit=clear+memory+sid#p25263

And I think someone poked it once to not do the *DISK command - that may be in another thread.

I had one of those MMC things once but they're pretty poor compared to a Datacentre. Actually using a real drive is my preference - I love the clunking sounds - ha! ha!


- PJ

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KarateEd
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Re: BeebSID

Postby KarateEd » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:54 am

So PJ,

How would I go about finding that *DISK call and change it to *CARD?

I'm not really sure if that would work, perhaps it would but I'd like to give it a go....

Thanks,

Ed......:-)

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danielj
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Re: BeebSID

Postby danielj » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:20 am

If the SID is loading below &1900 then changing things to *Card details won't make any difference as it's still loading over mmc workspace. DFS can get away with lowering page to &1100 and still working if you only have one file open at a time (see Martins earlier post). Only possibly is to relocate the SID somewhere else, but I dont know enough about their size and memory usage to give any pointers there...

d.

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hoglet
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Re: BeebSID

Postby hoglet » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:55 am

danielj wrote: Only possibly is to relocate the SID somewhere else, but I dont know enough about their size and memory usage to give any pointers there...

For the AtomSID conversions, I was able to successfully relocate most (99%) of the SIDs using Poink's modified version of sid-reloc:
http://poink-stardot.s3.amazonaws.com/s ... atched.tgz

Dave

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PitfallJones
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Re: BeebSID

Postby PitfallJones » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:33 am

KarateEd wrote:So PJ,

How would I go about finding that *DISK call and change it to *CARD?

I'm not really sure if that would work, perhaps it would but I'd like to give it a go....

Thanks,

Ed......:-)


You could load the beebsid.ssd file up in a hex editor - find the "DISK" characters and overwrite them with "CARD".

Image3.png



And there's also this code in there that clears the DFS memory, in addition some SIDS write to the memory below that at $400-$E00.

Code: Select all

   
        LDA#0
   LDX#0
.loopx:
        STA &E00,X
        STA &F00,X
        STA &1000,X
        STA &1100,X
        STA &1200,X
        STA &1300,X
        STA &1400,X
        STA &1500,X
        STA &1600,X
        STA &1700,X
        STA &1800,X
   INX
   BNE loopx

        LDX #LO(comm);
         LDY #HI(comm);
         JSR $FFF7      ;//*DISK



- PJ

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KarateEd
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Re: BeebSID

Postby KarateEd » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:28 pm

Wow.....looks like I'm going to be learning a whole lot more.

Thanks folks,

Ed......:-)

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richardtoohey
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Re: BeebSID

Postby richardtoohey » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:13 pm

The learning keeps you young ... and it's usually fun!

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PitfallJones
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BeebSID#14 1982

Postby PitfallJones » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:40 am

Hi There,

It's time again to fire up your BeebSID boards because here's a new music disk - the hits of 1982!

A terrific year for music - there were some real classics like this one (courtesy of the Casio VL-Tone) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdccNAOvPHg

beebsid14.jpg


Enjoy!

- PJ
Attachments
beebsid14.zip
(26.63 KiB) Downloaded 92 times

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oss003
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Re: BeebSID

Postby oss003 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:44 am

Hey PJ and what about the AtomSIDs ...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Another nice one to add to the collection =D>

Greetings
Kees

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hoglet
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Re: BeebSID

Postby hoglet » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:57 am

Kees,

Here's a first stab at an Atom conversion:
ATMSID14.zip
(33.44 KiB) Downloaded 47 times

Dave

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oss003
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Re: BeebSID

Postby oss003 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:49 pm

hoglet wrote:Kees,

Here's a first stab at an Atom conversion:
ATMSID14.zip

Dave

Hmmmm ..... the last number seems to generate an error.

Kees

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hoglet
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Re: BeebSID

Postby hoglet » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:33 pm

Can anyone confirm it works OK on a Beeb?

Dave

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hoglet
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Re: BeebSID

Postby hoglet » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:12 pm

Kees,

It looks like sidreloc has messed up the relocation of this one SID ("Our House"), as the machine code still has some of the old addresses in it. Strange, as it has successfully relocated 100's of other SIDs, and this one doesn't look any different. Also, the verification stage passed, which means sidreloc thinks the relocated code makes the same sequence of SID accesses. Very weird.....

Dave

duikkie
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Re: BeebSID

Postby duikkie » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:17 pm

i have a beeb :) , but the place it is is now 31 celcius . to hot to check :)



hoglet wrote:Can anyone confirm it works OK on a Beeb?

Dave

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MartinB
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Re: BeebSID

Postby MartinB » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:12 pm

I've just tried it on a Beeb and all the tracks play fine. Only thing of note is that the track in question, 'Our House', is really low in pitch, you can positively see the poor old speaker cone moving up and down :shock: :lol:

Great work as usual PJ :D =D> =D>

One thing though PJ - if I <Shift><Break> the disc, it boots ok but after displaying the menu, it bombs out with 'Channel..' and some other text garbage. However, if I manually run *SIDPLAY then all is well - I'm sure we've seen this before with one or two other of your discs... ? :-k

duikkie wrote:i have a beeb :) , but the place it is is now 31 celcius . to hot to check :)
Do you have a BeebSID then?

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KarateEd
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Re: BeebSID#14 1982

Postby KarateEd » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:20 am

PitfallJones wrote:A terrific year for music - there were some real classics like this one (courtesy of the Casio VL-Tone) :


I actually have the North American version of the Casio VL-Tone, the Realistic Concertmate-200.....just put that very same beat on it.

I will learn to play that tune on the ukulele (should be easy enough) and perform it putting my Concertmate-200 through the sound system and get the bass guy involved.....should be a hoot (been planning it for a while now actually).

If I do it well and get good video then I'll upload it to YouTube and let you guys have a laugh - but don't hold your breath, could be quite a while before I get a round tuit.

Ed......:-)

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hoglet
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Re: BeebSID

Postby hoglet » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:01 am

Hi all,

Here's an updated Atom port, with a working "Our House".
ATMSID14.png

All I did was skipped the SID relocation on this song. Consequently, it will only work if you have memory from #1000 to #2000.
ATMSID14.zip
(33.42 KiB) Downloaded 44 times

Brilliant selection PJ =D> =D> =D>

Dave

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PitfallJones
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Re: BeebSID

Postby PitfallJones » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:54 pm

Thanks for the feedback Guys,

That original shift break problem was because of files higher in the directory having higher sectors, whereas a really BBC stores them in reverse like I do now.

cat.png


So the problem you are having now must be different - perhaps it is trying to load the first song too quickly after loading the program.
I test it on a real master with 1770 dfs with a 5.25 floppy.


I await your Casio video with eagerness!
I thought the SID did a very good job at replicating Rock Rhythm #1.
Here is a pretty good PC emulator:
http://www.polyvalens.com/blog/vl-1/

- PJ

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KarateEd
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Re: BeebSID

Postby KarateEd » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:34 pm

PitfallJones wrote:I await your Casio video with eagerness!
I thought the SID did a very good job at replicating Rock Rhythm #1.
- PJ


It will be a while before I get it done..... just too busy with the ukulele course right now, it's very intense, however, I will attempt it and it will probably be ok.....

and yes, the Rock#1 sound is pretty much on.

Ed......:-)

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PitfallJones
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BeebSID Disk#15 70's Rock

Postby PitfallJones » Wed May 13, 2015 8:25 am

Hi There Folks,

Here's a new collection of gems gathered from the hidden corners of the HVSC - you can't beat the 70's for some Classic Rock!

beebsid15.jpg


- PJ
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beebsid15.zip
(30.01 KiB) Downloaded 66 times

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oss003
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Re: BeebSID

Postby oss003 » Wed May 13, 2015 8:59 am

Did you got some inspiration for a new album ...... :lol:

Great job PJ, you're right, the 70's rock!!

Greetings
Kees

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Re: BeebSID

Postby SarahWalker » Sun May 24, 2015 5:30 pm

I can't believe it's taken me six years to get round to converting the best SID tune ever made.

This should work on 32k, but Master owners get the benefit of a nice picture.
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TurboOutrun.zip
(21.82 KiB) Downloaded 49 times

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oss003
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Re: BeebSID

Postby oss003 » Sun May 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Sounds great, nice job Tom ..... =D>
Does the tune consists of only playing samples or playing samples combined with SID music?

Greetings
Kees

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Re: BeebSID

Postby SarahWalker » Sun May 24, 2015 7:42 pm

It's SID + samples.

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Arcadian
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Re: BeebSID

Postby Arcadian » Sun May 24, 2015 9:10 pm

Stunning!!!
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

Image
ABug NORTH (Manchester) (19-21 January 2018)
ABug SOUTH (Hampshire) (1-3 June 2018)

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hoglet
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Re: BeebSID

Postby hoglet » Mon May 25, 2015 6:39 pm

Kees,

You fancy converting Turbo Outrun for Atom SID?

It would be a really good test of the GODIL SID.

Dave

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oss003
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Re: BeebSID

Postby oss003 » Mon May 25, 2015 7:33 pm

Hi Dave,

I'll have a look but I think it's a more complex player routine than the other SID files......

Greetings
Kees

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PitfallJones
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BeebSID Disk#16 ABBA !!

Postby PitfallJones » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:00 pm

It's.... Christmas and time for another disk mined from the HVSC vaults!

Feast your ears this December on the amazing hits of ABBA!

beebsid16.jpg


- PJ
Attachments
beebsid16.zip
(34.94 KiB) Downloaded 57 times

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danielj
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Re: BeebSID

Postby danielj » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:00 pm

Right, time to get the beebsid hooked up again! It's been too long! Thanks PJ :D


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