MMC card interface

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:54 pm

maybe use 2 other buffers like 74vhc125mct and the sw to make it open sw1 to gnd pulling pin 1 and 4 to gnd opening 1a-1y and 2a-2y.
or a chip with 8 buffers and 8 0E lines ??

User avatar
lazarusr
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:56 pm
Location: London

Re: MMC card interface

Postby lazarusr » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:34 pm

duikkie wrote:i was a little bit affaid that you use the buffer like in the turbo board version, but all are simple open . (gnd) :D

They are just being used as level-shifters. I can't imagine what function the OE lines would have in such a set up. Or does the Turbo MMC software read the data from the User Port in a different way that requires more complex use of the buffers?

duikkie wrote:maybe use 2 other buffers like 74vhc125mct and the sw to make it open sw1 to gnd pulling pin 1 and 4 to gnd opening 1a-1y and 2a-2y.
or a chip with 8 buffers and 8 0E lines ??

Still a very steep learning curve for me at the moment and, at the time, I was basically just copying. But I thought something like that would work. There would still be the possibility of more than one pair being switched in at the same time (or, indeed, none at all). What would be nice to find would be some kind of ultra small, 4 way rotary switch.

User avatar
Wookie
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:06 am
Location: Lost in a fog of PSU capacitor smoke

Re: MMC card interface

Postby Wookie » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:55 pm

lazarusr wrote:I thought I'd have a go at trying to do some SMD work. So I made this:

Very nice, who made the board for you ? or can you make them youself ?

I've been working on a very similar design but was a bit stumped as to who to use to make the pcb's at a reasonable price, mine will be thru-hole rather than smd so anyone could easily make it. I was thinking of supplying it in kit form or ready assembled for a small fee.
cheers Wookie
Overclocked StrongARM RiscPC + Viewfinder
Overclocked Arm3 8MB A310 + vidc extender
BBC Master with Matchbox CoPro
BBC B+ 64K
My original Electron from 1985 with Slogger MasterRam/Turbo,AP1,AP2 rom, AP3+4 & New AP6

User avatar
lazarusr
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:56 pm
Location: London

Re: MMC card interface

Postby lazarusr » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:18 pm

Wookie wrote:Very nice, who made the board for you ? or can you make them yourself ?

I use Smart Prototyping in China: http://www.smart-prototyping.com. They seem reasonable and the price is about as low as you can get. But it is very much a case of you get what you pay for me. If you use small font for the silk screen you just get a blurred mess. Also, one of the 0402 resistors tombstoned twice and the second time I tried to remove the excess solder with a wick, the pad came away :shock:. So the quality may not be wonderful.

You should also look at this: http://www.pcbshopper.com. It's a PCB price comparison website.

Wookie wrote:mine will be thru-hole rather than smd so anyone could easily make it. I was thinking of supplying it in kit form or ready assembled for a small fee.

I'm not sure there is through hole MicroSD card socket. Or are you just using the PCB to bring the connections on the Catalex board to a 20-pin header? Speaking of which, the only suitable 20-pin header I could find was this one from RS: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-sockets/7655742. However, with VAT, it works out at £3.56 which is a bit steep given what it is. If you can find anything cheaper, I would love to know.

User avatar
Wookie
Posts: 342
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:06 am
Location: Lost in a fog of PSU capacitor smoke

Re: MMC card interface

Postby Wookie » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:36 pm

lazarusr wrote:I'm not sure there is through hole MicroSD card socket.

Yeah I know, I was planning on using old fashioned thru-hole components and only the card socket would be smt and probaby fitted on the track side, unless anyone else has a better idea.

lazarusr wrote:However, with VAT, it works out at £3.56 which is a bit steep given what it is. If you can find anything cheaper, I would love to know.

On the bay of fleas http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300892711165 £1.16 for 3 plus £1.45 p&p
cheers Wookie
Overclocked StrongARM RiscPC + Viewfinder
Overclocked Arm3 8MB A310 + vidc extender
BBC Master with Matchbox CoPro
BBC B+ 64K
My original Electron from 1985 with Slogger MasterRam/Turbo,AP1,AP2 rom, AP3+4 & New AP6

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:45 am

yes turbo board use the buffers in a different way , because they use the input and out line on the same pb line. so called turbo mode of the userport chip ( mode 2 was it ??)

lazarusr wrote:
duikkie wrote:i was a little bit affaid that you use the buffer like in the turbo board version, but all are simple open . (gnd) :D

They are just being used as level-shifters. I can't imagine what function the OE lines would have in such a set up. Or does the Turbo MMC software read the data from the User Port in a different way that requires more complex use of the buffers?

duikkie wrote:maybe use 2 other buffers like 74vhc125mct and the sw to make it open sw1 to gnd pulling pin 1 and 4 to gnd opening 1a-1y and 2a-2y.
or a chip with 8 buffers and 8 0E lines ??

Still a very steep learning curve for me at the moment and, at the time, I was basically just copying. But I thought something like that would work. There would still be the possibility of more than one pair being switched in at the same time (or, indeed, none at all). What would be nice to find would be some kind of ultra small, 4 way rotary switch.

User avatar
sbadger
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:12 pm
Location: Farnham, Surrey

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sbadger » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:37 am

Hi,

I've made one of these sd jobbies and is working nicely, some quirks with the software but still good.

One question, i'm using a master and loading smartSPI into sideways ram.
Some of the games are master enchanced that also load into sideways ram (reptons etc) overwriting the spi rom.
I've tried different rams slots 4-7 for spi but these games still overwrite.

Is there any techniques or modified versions for this not to happen? or do i just need to burn an eprom and fit it?

thanks
stew
A3020| A3000x3| BBCBx3 | Electrn | Masterx3 |RiscPC| RPix3
A600 | C64 bbin x2|C64C | Toastrack |QL | XB360&1X |GB |GBC |GBA |GBASP | DS | 3DS XL x2| MD | MS
Atari 7600 | PS1-2-3-4| PSP |Vita |SNES |GC |N64 |Wii & U |Switch |JammaCab |Sony PVMx2

User avatar
sbadger
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:12 pm
Location: Farnham, Surrey

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sbadger » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:42 am

lazarusr wrote:I thought I'd have a go at trying to do some SMD work. So I made this:

IMG_0745.jpg



Shutup and take my money!

Image

Seriously - so neat - i'd buy a couple for sensible money
A3020| A3000x3| BBCBx3 | Electrn | Masterx3 |RiscPC| RPix3
A600 | C64 bbin x2|C64C | Toastrack |QL | XB360&1X |GB |GBC |GBA |GBASP | DS | 3DS XL x2| MD | MS
Atari 7600 | PS1-2-3-4| PSP |Vita |SNES |GC |N64 |Wii & U |Switch |JammaCab |Sony PVMx2

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:35 am

use a EEPROM , there will be a update soon, not solving your problem :( , but the osword7f


sbadger wrote:Hi,

I've made one of these sd jobbies and is working nicely, some quirks with the software but still good.

One question, i'm using a master and loading smartSPI into sideways ram.
Some of the games are master enchanced that also load into sideways ram (reptons etc) overwriting the spi rom.
I've tried different rams slots 4-7 for spi but these games still overwrite.

Is there any techniques or modified versions for this not to happen? or do i just need to burn an eprom and fit it?

thanks
stew

User avatar
sbadger
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:12 pm
Location: Farnham, Surrey

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sbadger » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:19 pm

duikkie wrote:use a EEPROM , there will be a update soon, not solving your problem :( , but the osword7f


sbadger wrote:Hi,

I've made one of these sd jobbies and is working nicely, some quirks with the software but still good.

One question, i'm using a master and loading smartSPI into sideways ram.
Some of the games are master enchanced that also load into sideways ram (reptons etc) overwriting the spi rom.
I've tried different rams slots 4-7 for spi but these games still overwrite.

Is there any techniques or modified versions for this not to happen? or do i just need to burn an eprom and fit it?

thanks
stew


In a master doesn't the eeprom take up bank 4-5 or 6-7 though? exactly the area needed to be kept clear?
if not, is there a guide post? looking at the "eeprom holygrail" thread isn't very clear for a master
A3020| A3000x3| BBCBx3 | Electrn | Masterx3 |RiscPC| RPix3
A600 | C64 bbin x2|C64C | Toastrack |QL | XB360&1X |GB |GBC |GBA |GBASP | DS | 3DS XL x2| MD | MS
Atari 7600 | PS1-2-3-4| PSP |Vita |SNES |GC |N64 |Wii & U |Switch |JammaCab |Sony PVMx2

User avatar
DutchAcorn
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:56 am
Location: Maarn, Netherlands

Re: MMC card interface

Postby DutchAcorn » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:58 pm

sbadger wrote:In a master doesn't the eeprom take up bank 4-5 or 6-7 though? exactly the area needed to be kept clear?
if not, is there a guide post? looking at the "eeprom holygrail" thread isn't very clear for a master

Yes, that's right.

Some more info here: http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7672 Or in the reference manual part 1, F.5-4 / F.5-5.

In short: you could get a ROM cartridge and put your SmartSPI rom in there.
Paul

User avatar
sbadger
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:12 pm
Location: Farnham, Surrey

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sbadger » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:22 pm

DutchAcorn wrote:
sbadger wrote:In a master doesn't the eeprom take up bank 4-5 or 6-7 though? exactly the area needed to be kept clear?
if not, is there a guide post? looking at the "eeprom holygrail" thread isn't very clear for a master

Yes, that's right.

Some more info here: http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7672 Or in the reference manual part 1, F.5-4 / F.5-5.

In short: you could get a ROM cartridge and put your SmartSPI rom in there.


Thanks, so it seems i've got the exact same problem as the doomsday system had. So in a workaround, i thought why not just write the files from the selected disk to the real floppy... looking at other threads :cry: looks like trouble also. Is there *IMTOD equiv?
A3020| A3000x3| BBCBx3 | Electrn | Masterx3 |RiscPC| RPix3
A600 | C64 bbin x2|C64C | Toastrack |QL | XB360&1X |GB |GBC |GBA |GBASP | DS | 3DS XL x2| MD | MS
Atari 7600 | PS1-2-3-4| PSP |Vita |SNES |GC |N64 |Wii & U |Switch |JammaCab |Sony PVMx2

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:22 pm

an eeprom is rom with benifits . you always can program a eeprom , even outside you acorn machine and use it like prom.

DutchAcorn wrote:
sbadger wrote:In a master doesn't the eeprom take up bank 4-5 or 6-7 though? exactly the area needed to be kept clear?
if not, is there a guide post? looking at the "eeprom holygrail" thread isn't very clear for a master

Yes, that's right.

Some more info here: http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7672 Or in the reference manual part 1, F.5-4 / F.5-5.

In short: you could get a ROM cartridge and put your SmartSPI rom in there.

JonC
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 9:19 pm
Location: Wakefield

Re: MMC card interface

Postby JonC » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:34 pm

DutchAcorn wrote:
sbadger wrote:In a master doesn't the eeprom take up bank 4-5 or 6-7 though? exactly the area needed to be kept clear?
if not, is there a guide post? looking at the "eeprom holygrail" thread isn't very clear for a master

Yes, that's right.

Some more info here: http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7672 Or in the reference manual part 1, F.5-4 / F.5-5.

In short: you could get a ROM cartridge and put your SmartSPI rom in there.


DaveH does Advanced ROM Adaptor cartridges which should do the trick.
Jon
Image

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 1916
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby tricky » Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:58 pm

I'm not sure if this is the best thread for this, but here goes.

Is there a"best" choice for which ROM to drive a user port MMC device with?

Which have copro compatibility?
(all except turbo I think our did hoglet just as that)

Which support which board?
Turbo ROM: turbo board in turbo mode.
Smart SPI: 99p card and turbo MMC in non turbo mode.
I guess the others support the 99p card in non turbo mode.

Which support "large" cards?
Smart SPI + ?

Which have an option to use sideways ram to give page at & E00?

Which are compatible with solidisk sideways ram and other hardware that uses part of the user port without a BREAK or similar inconvenience?
Smart SPI(1) + turbo MMC(1) + ?

(1) require an ON ERROR or *card etc or similar.
This last bit is the bit I would really like fixing as it is the bit that requires software to be patched or written to handle the special cases.

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: MMC card interface

Postby hoglet » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:17 pm

tricky wrote:I'm not sure if this is the best thread for this, but here goes.
Is there a"best" choice for which ROM to drive a user port MMC device with?


Yesterday I fixed MMFS to support FAT32 (with a limit of 8GB currently):
https://github.com/hoglet67/BeebFpga/co ... 8d250a4978

My plan shortly is to:
- give MMFS it's own git repository
- create top level (variable setting) build files for: Master, Electron ROM, Electron SWRAM, Beeb ROM, Beeb SWRAM
- add an overall release script that creates an .ssd with all five versions, so it's easy to keep them in sync
- create a forum thread dedicated to MMFS support

Personally I prefer MMFS for several reasons:
- it's all built from simple text sources, rather than patching existing binaries with BBC Basic programs
- it's derived from DFS 2.x rather than DFS 0.9
- the Master and Beeb/Electron SWRAM versions result in PAGE at &E00
- it preserves the current directory on BREAK
- it now supports FAT32 as well as FAT16
- I'm motivated to fix any bugs that people find!

It currently doesn't support the Turbo MMC Hardware, and the FAT support isn't quite as comprehensive as Duikkie has in SmartSPI.

Dave

User avatar
sweh
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:05 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sweh » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:24 pm

hoglet wrote:Personally I prefer MMFS for several reasons:
- it's all built from simple text sources, rather than patching existing binaries with BBC Basic programs
- it's derived from DFS 2.x rather than DFS 0.9
- the Master and Beeb/Electron SWRAM versions result in PAGE at &E00
- it preserves the current directory on BREAK
- it now supports FAT32 as well as FAT16
- I'm motivated to fix any bugs that people find!

It currently doesn't support the Turbo MMC Hardware, and the FAT support isn't quite as comprehensive as Duikkie has in SmartSPI.

I'm also attracted to MMFS for the same reasons. If you can ever get it working with TurboMMC then we may have the best of all worlds.

And I'm very tempted at forking a version of this to use UPURS as the communication protocol, so SSD images can be served over UPURS rather than MMC.
Rgds
Stephen

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:46 pm

i think SMART USB , to get you away from the userport.
it is only 2 chips (74ls??? and the ch375b )
the &e00 is a thing , you only can solve with ram outside the normal memory.

allso maybe sideway ram selection on the printer port (A)

tricky wrote:I'm not sure if this is the best thread for this, but here goes.

Is there a"best" choice for which ROM to drive a user port MMC device with?

Which have copro compatibility?
(all except turbo I think our did hoglet just as that)

Which support which board?
Turbo ROM: turbo board in turbo mode.
Smart SPI: 99p card and turbo MMC in non turbo mode.
I guess the others support the 99p card in non turbo mode.

Which support "large" cards?
Smart SPI + ?

Which have an option to use sideways ram to give page at & E00?

Which are compatible with solidisk sideways ram and other hardware that uses part of the user port without a BREAK or similar inconvenience?
Smart SPI(1) + turbo MMC(1) + ?

(1) require an ON ERROR or *card etc or similar.
This last bit is the bit I would really like fixing as it is the bit that requires software to be patched or written to handle the special cases.

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: MMC card interface

Postby hoglet » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:53 pm

Is Duikkie's reverse engineering of Turbo MMC the nearest we have to a complete schematic?
viewtopic.php?t=9445&f=3#p110691
turbommc.jpg

Comparing this to the "classic" MMBEEB:
mmbeeb.jpg


It seems that the Turbo MMC hardware can be configured to be compatible with MMBEEB, i.e.
- connect PB1/CB1 to SCLK
- connect PB0 to SDI
- connect SDO to CB2

To do this, all you need to do is set:
- PB2 = 0 (connect SDO to CB2)
- PB3 = 1 (don't connect CB2 to SDI)
- PB4 = 0 (connect PB0 to SDI)

This is a very trivial change to make to MMFS.

You would loose the Turbo mode, but is that really quicker?

Dave

User avatar
sweh
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:05 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sweh » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:03 pm

hoglet wrote:It seems that the Turbo MMC hardware can be configured to be compatible with MMBEEB, i.e.
- connect PB1/CB1 to SCLK
- connect PB0 to SDI
- connect SDO to CB2

Do you mean creating a custom cable?

ideally having the existing straight cable working would be best, so then users can switch between TurboMMC ROM, Smart SPI, MMFS etc. Allows for compatibility testing, bug testing (eg testing Smart SPI and TurboMMC and seeing identical results helped me with the OSW7F bug) and so on.
Rgds
Stephen

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: MMC card interface

Postby hoglet » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:07 pm

sweh wrote:
hoglet wrote:It seems that the Turbo MMC hardware can be configured to be compatible with MMBEEB, i.e.
- connect PB1/CB1 to SCLK
- connect PB0 to SDI
- connect SDO to CB2

Do you mean creating a custom cable?

No, I mean from software just by configuring Port B bits [4:2] as outputs and setting them to "010".

I think Duikkie worked this out last year, we're just catching up :lol:

Dave

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 1916
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby tricky » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:09 pm

Can mmfs be configured to find the correct pins for mmc not on pb0/1 as smart SPI or have a simple configuration option added for different pairs of pins?
I don't have a real beeb available at the moment, but what is compatibility like for solidisk SWR, or programmes that look for it?

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: MMC card interface

Postby hoglet » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:10 pm

tricky wrote:Can mmfs be configured to find the correct pins for mmc not on pb0/1 as smart SPI or have a simple configuration option added for different pairs of pins?

Is there some specific hardware you are aware of that's wired differently?
tricky wrote:I don't have a real beeb available at the moment, but what is compatibility like for solidisk SWR, or programmes that look for it?

You mean for the SWRAM versions of MMFS?

The SWRAM version of MMFS assumes that B600-BFFF in the same ROM slot as the MMFS code is running from is writable, and uses this for workspace. It should work in any SWRAM board, as long as it's not write protected.

Dave

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 1916
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby tricky » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:19 pm

I have most of my boards wired to pb4/5 to avoid issues with programmes trying to detect solidisk SWR.
This is more about games looking for SWR than using SWR for the disc workspace. Smart SPI does this.

User avatar
sweh
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:05 pm
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby sweh » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:22 pm

hoglet wrote:
tricky wrote:I don't have a real beeb available at the moment, but what is compatibility like for solidisk SWR, or programmes that look for it?

You mean for the SWRAM versions of MMFS?

The SWRAM version of MMFS assumes that B600-BFFF in the same ROM slot as the MMFS code is running from is writable, and uses this for workspace. It should work in any SWRAM board, as long as it's not write protected.

Note that the early Solidisk SWR uses the userport to select the write bank; ?&FE62=15:?&FE60=bank. If I understand correctly, one of the things Duikkie did for SMART (and the reason it's "smart") is that it allows the MMC board to be connected to different pins than normal, so the Solidisk SWR and MMC can be used at the same time.
Rgds
Stephen

User avatar
hoglet
Posts: 6613
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: MMC card interface

Postby hoglet » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:39 pm

It would be quite challenging to add that kind of "Smart" functionality to MMFS. The reason being that the SWRAM builds are pretty packed at the moment, as the code needs to finish by B5FF to leave B600-BFFF free for file system workspace.

It would be similarly challenging to add the "PAGE remains at E00" functionality to SmartSPI. There just isn't the space.

So I think both these two "modern" solutions will be around for some time, and people can take their pick, depending on what's important to them.

I'm more than happy to share bug fixes etc. with Duikkie (like we've just done for the Tube bugs).

But it sounds like there is no reason to be using the original MMBEEB SuperMMC ROM anymore. And if Steve Picton has lost the source for TurboMMC, then overtime use of that will I think decline, because bugs will remain unfixed.

Dave

User avatar
tricky
Posts: 1916
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:25 am
Contact:

Re: MMC card interface

Postby tricky » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:48 pm

Is there room for a build option to pick the PB line pair, as changing on the fly is a bit unnecessary. I guess the usefulness of this is dependant on how well MMFS survives apps searching for SWR controlled by the user port lines pb0123.

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:50 pm

one of the reason it is called SMART , ( because the maker is stupid :shock: :D )
mmc and turbo are known for the assuming things in the rom, smart assums very little, pb lines, fat , the file beeb.mmb is in ram so beebxxx.mmb is possible. transfer file from dos direct in beeb with dput and dget.


sweh wrote:
hoglet wrote:
tricky wrote:I don't have a real beeb available at the moment, but what is compatibility like for solidisk SWR, or programmes that look for it?

You mean for the SWRAM versions of MMFS?

The SWRAM version of MMFS assumes that B600-BFFF in the same ROM slot as the MMFS code is running from is writable, and uses this for workspace. It should work in any SWRAM board, as long as it's not write protected.

Note that the early Solidisk SWR uses the userport to select the write bank; ?&FE62=15:?&FE60=bank. If I understand correctly, one of the things Duikkie did for SMART (and the reason it's "smart") is that it allows the MMC board to be connected to different pins than normal, so the Solidisk SWR and MMC can be used at the same time.

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:58 pm

the source for turbommc is supermmc with a few bytes for mode 2 of the via. it is not that difficult to make turbommc source. ( smart spi read in "turbo"mode and depending if you have a buffer(turboboard) it writes in slow or turbo mode.
so the hole turbo thing is in smart spi.

hoglet wrote:It would be quite challenging to add that kind of "Smart" functionality to MMFS. The reason being that the SWRAM builds are pretty packed at the moment, as the code needs to finish by B5FF to leave B600-BFFF free for file system workspace.

It would be similarly challenging to add the "PAGE remains at E00" functionality to SmartSPI. There just isn't the space.

So I think both these two "modern" solutions will be around for some time, and people can take their pick, depending on what's important to them.

I'm more than happy to share bug fixes etc. with Duikkie (like we've just done for the Tube bugs).

But it sounds like there is no reason to be using the original MMBEEB SuperMMC ROM anymore. And if Steve Picton has lost the source for TurboMMC, then overtime use of that will I think decline, because bugs will remain unfixed.

Dave

duikkie
Posts: 2707
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: MMC card interface

Postby duikkie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:19 pm

supermmc use SRMODE0 , TURBOMMC use SRMODE2/6. SRMODE2/6 is faster page 409/410, the buffer is needed because CB2 is sometime input other times output. therefor bufferchip to not blow up your via. without a buffer you can't write turbo

hoglet wrote:Is Duikkie's reverse engineering of Turbo MMC the nearest we have to a complete schematic?
viewtopic.php?t=9445&f=3#p110691
turbommc.jpg

Comparing this to the "classic" MMBEEB:
mmbeeb.jpg


It seems that the Turbo MMC hardware can be configured to be compatible with MMBEEB, i.e.
- connect PB1/CB1 to SCLK
- connect PB0 to SDI
- connect SDO to CB2

To do this, all you need to do is set:
- PB2 = 0 (connect SDO to CB2)
- PB3 = 1 (don't connect CB2 to SDI)
- PB4 = 0 (connect PB0 to SDI)

This is a very trivial change to make to MMFS.

You would loose the Turbo mode, but is that really quicker?

Dave


Return to “hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], myelin and 8 guests