MMC card interface

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
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CMcDougall
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MMC card interface

Postby CMcDougall » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:55 am

http://mmbeeb.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ 8) :D 8) :D
EDIT : now ere http://members.lycos.co.uk/mmbeeb
EDIT : now http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/bbc/mmbeeb/# ... cesoftware

the MMC card interface, i tried the software last night, but cant seem to get .DSD discs onto the 'hardDisc.MMC' file :?
.SSD discs go on no bother (512 of them!), so i take it you have to turn your .dsd disc images into .ssd format :?
Very impressed though :shock:
also wondering if you can write to the discs using the beeb, or is it only the PC that can write to it :?

i will buy the bits, it should only take about half an hour to make 8)

......goes and throws all my beeb floppy discs in the bin :D

Looks like it works on beebEm aswell :D
mmbeeb.dll

For use with BeebEm, allows the dfs09mmb.rom to be used.

The dll is placed in the BeebEm “Hardware” folder and selected as a “Model B Floppy Controller” (Hardware menu, Model B emulation only).

An optional mmc.cfg text file placed in the BeebEm folder can state a pathname to the MMB image file, else the default is “C:\BEEB.MMB”.
^^ will have a go of that, before REAL beeb :P
now, how to get that onto a Elk aswell :roll: , then can throw all those floppy discs out aswell!

Anybody else had ANY joy /own this bit of kit?? or only AndyD :?

EDIT: beeb.mmb file with games on : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8176#p87705
and see here for a £0.99 with free P&P pre-made one at pg10 : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1919&start=270#p87252

EDIT2: newer MMB image manager from Jon for >winXP : download/file.php?id=23264

EDIT3: much faster MMFS1.21+ based on the 1770 2.2x DFS, not old 8271 0.90 DFS, courtesy of DaveB =D> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10621&start=180#p131428 and also in thread a copier from physical discs to your MMB image /.SSD 8)

EDIT4: now can use a elk Plus1 printer port (with a 5v mod) & also works : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12737#p163755
Last edited by CMcDougall on Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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RobC
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Postby RobC » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:42 pm

I've built one and it's excellent! I'd definitely recommend it to anyone without GoMMC as it's so cheap and easy to make.

The best thing about it is that I can develop on my laptop with beebasm and then quickly transfer the disk image to my Master or Beeb without having to worry about using floppies. And all the "disks" I use are always at hand...

I think that the MMBImager will only accept .ssd or .img files - I seem to remember having to split the disks in the STH collection. However, it's a while since I did this and so I might be wrong.

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aferenbach
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the non-GoMMC MMC interface

Postby aferenbach » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:13 pm

Hey, does the interface work with Exile? that is the GoMMC's achilles heel?

Also does anyone have the urge to assemble these and sell them at a knock down price? I bought the parts, but too darn busy to pick up a solering iron.

Andrew

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Dave Footitt
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Postby Dave Footitt » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:27 am

RobC wrote:The best thing about it is that I can develop on my laptop with beebasm and then quickly transfer the disk image to my Master or Beeb without having to worry about using floppies. And all the "disks" I use are always at hand...


That's exactly what I bought GoMMC for. However, I have a problem with GoMMC in that it often gets 'ROM Corrupted' and I have no way of restoring the ROM since there are no free ROM slots (eg for GoMMC's TOOLROM) and no other way of getting the data on, so now it's just sat there with a corrupted ROM and I'm unable to get any new builds of my game onto it.

However, I'm hopeless at electronic stuff - if this system works I'd love to be able to buy one from someone!

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sorvad
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Postby sorvad » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:47 am

You've all got my interest, I'm going to make one.

GoMMC seems good but 've heard of that ROM corruption more than once.

RobC
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Postby RobC » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:59 am

I've just done a quick test and Exile does appear to load from the MMC on my Master. (I've only tested it as far as the opening scene in the spaceship and the sampled speech).

I'm pretty sure that I bought enough parts to build more than one just in case I messed things up. I'll check and if so, I'd be happy to build one for you Dave.

However, I'm in no ways a professional so won't be offended if you get a better offer!

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Dave Footitt
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Postby Dave Footitt » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:32 am

Excellent stuff!

How much we talking Rob? Should I pop you a PM?

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Dave_E
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Postby Dave_E » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:56 am

My Electron GoMMC got ROM corrupted three times within a week. The last time, with a heavy heart, I started levering out the TOOLROM and its legs finally snapped. So I chucked the whole thing in a drawer and have never looked at it since. Is this other version any more reliable?

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sorvad
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Postby sorvad » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:02 am

I've not looked in great detail but there appears to be no use of re-programmable devices in this unit so shouldn't get corruption of any firmware (MMC card a different story of course, could be corrupted like any disk).

But that's just from my quick looking, anyone confirm it's more reliable due to it's design ?

The stories of ROM corruption has definitely put me off a GoMMC (at £50 a throw), but this looks a different beast and a lot cheaper if you do it yourself. Just needs converting for an ELK and I'll be well happy :)

RobC
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Postby RobC » Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:14 pm

Dave Footitt wrote:Excellent stuff!

How much we talking Rob? Should I pop you a PM?


I've PM'd you Dave.

Cheers,

Rob

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aferenbach
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Rom corruption on GoMMC

Postby aferenbach » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:04 pm

Hi Y'all

In my humble experience the ROM corruption tended to happen when the keyboard would short against the GoMMC board in a BBC B. A bit of card between the two stops all that business.

Does anyone have a craving to assemble one of these alternative GoMMC interfaces for me? I have the parts and would gladly mail them to whoever is up for it. I bought enough to make two, so would anyone accept the parts as payment for assembly of one?

Alternatively I am more than glad to supply burned Eproms of the special DFS rom to go with it if that is of interest to people.

I eagerly await offers and am open to negotiation, I have bundles of BBC parts for barter.

Andrew

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alchresearch
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Postby alchresearch » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:16 pm

I'm really pleased to see the activity and good feedback regarding Martin's board!

After owning a GoMMC, I felt that this did essentially the same thing at a fraction of the cost.
Andy Davis.

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Re: Rom corruption on GoMMC

Postby g7jjf » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:16 pm

aferenbach wrote:I bought enough to make two, so would anyone accept the parts as payment for assembly of one?

If you haven't already had an offer of help, I will gladly get my soldering iron out and put them together if you want.

Jon.

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alchresearch
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Postby alchresearch » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:38 pm

I'm not sure if anyone is struggling to get MMC cards, but this place still does them:

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(3200)Integral-64MB-MultimediaMemory-Card.aspx

and:

http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product ... M128&af=50
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Postby guesser » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:42 pm

as this circuit does all the controlling of the data transfer in software on the beeb, and uses the spi bus to talk to the mmc card, surely SD cards could be supported by simply changing the software... (and changing the socket to make the sd card fit) because iirc, the extra pins in SD are not used in SPi mode

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CMcDougall
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nice

Postby CMcDougall » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:32 pm

woow :shock:

ive had a go last week with the emulator, and its the dogs bollox! :D

you load in each .ssd disc into a drive of your choice, and its fast as!

so .dsd discs you split into two .ssd discs (proggy to d/l on site), then put side0 in dr0 & side2 in dr2, its THAT easy! :D :D :D

Reet Petite tune hardly has any gaps between loads!

only one game did not work, that was The Graphics Adventure Creater, but maybe cause its on DFS0.90 :? , but So what!

type next week folks, as off for two week... maternity leave! , its a Girl, Katie. 8)
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aferenbach
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making of interface

Postby aferenbach » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:53 pm

Hi Y'all

I was innundated with kind offers of people with soldering irons. Now I am so spoilt for choice I really don't know who to pick as my "assembler".

Will probably end up doing eeeny meeny miney mo

When I decide I'll let y'all know

Andrew

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alchresearch
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Postby alchresearch » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:38 pm

I wouldn't mind a spare one making, so if anyone is about to start assembling, put me down for one please!
Andy Davis.

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regregex
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Postby regregex » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:34 am

Regarding GoMMC corruption, with mine it tends to happen if the board is pushed out of its socket, e.g. by pushing too heavily on the keyboard. To solve this problem I ended up writing a 'babysitter' ROM that verifies, and if necessary reprograms, the GoMMC ROM on power up.

This takes up an extra ROM slot I know, but the use of non-volatile memory in the unit means glitches aren't wiped on power down (FRAM itself has destructive reads and stricter timing requirements than SRAM, leading to more glitches in practice.) It's unfortunate that the MOS places total trust in the sideways ROMs, so errors escalate into hangups.

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aferenbach
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babysitter rom?

Postby aferenbach » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:08 am

That babysitter rom sounds pretty neat - any chance to making the rom image available to us on the forums? also does it reprogram from the toolrom, or do you have to make a custom version each time a new revision comes out?

Andrew

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:28 am

alchresearch wrote:I'm not sure if anyone is struggling to get MMC cards


whats the difference between MMC cards and SD cards? :?

one of my card reader says it does both, are they just not the same??

Nowadays, if u buy a MicroSD card, you get adaptors for SD, MiniSD etc :D

http://www.pma-show.com/news_images/000 ... icrosd.jpg
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Postby retroclinic » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:47 pm

The SD Card is meant to be a superset of the MMC Card, so as well as being able to run in a compatible SPI mode, it also allows a faster 4 bit wide bus and content copy protection. Best explained on Page 17 of the SD Specs document where it gives a table of the differences:

http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/OEM/ ... csv101.pdf

GoMMC and the MMC Card reader you are looking at use SPI mode, so should also work with SD cards. The only issue may be the physical socket they use.

Mark.

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regregex
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Postby regregex » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:30 pm

Last I read, MMC interfaces (being SPI) can be publically implemented, but makers of devices that take SD cards have to pay royalties. This may be why John didn't fit a more versatile dual-type slot.

As predicted, an SD card with the contact side of the casing carefully sliced off will work in the GoMMC, but it may not work in cameras etc. after that (you have been warned!)

As for the babysitter ROM, well, it doubles as the ToolROM. It's got all the tools in a ROMFS image at the front, plus a horrible hack that does the programming itself (not using MMCUP). John, would you consider releasing a ToolROM that drops the actual MMCUP into memory and calls it on power up? If not then the earliest I can look at it is after the show (depending how John feels about an independent release!)

--Greg

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:45 am

^^ thanks for the info, ....goes and finds a 'old' MMC card :evil:
does anyone know what size is best, or does 256/512mb also work :?

Playing with this on BeebEm emulator again, and it also saves to the 'discs' aswell, turn it off, and load it 'disc' is back, and proggy is still there! :D :D 8)

I take it, if some1 had a bare beeb with no 1770/8271 FDC, then they could just plug this in with a blown rom image, and off it will go :?:

If someone had already split the whole 144 STH collection discs into .ssd discs, can they upload a zipped file of it, will save me lots of clicking :wink:
Last edited by CMcDougall on Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Samwise
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Postby Samwise » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:54 am

Colin,

You could search peer to peer networks for the TOSEC BBC Micro collections - most of the contents are from STH and the other beeb sites.

Sam.

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:58 am

^^ cheers Sam, but whats that? if u mean torrents, no can get, plus toooo slow :wink:
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Samwise
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Postby Samwise » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:08 am

There are several peer to peer networks but, yes, bittorrent is one of the most popular. The TOSEC stuff began life being shared on the eDonkey network ofter being published by ShareReactor years ago, but has since moved on to other networks.

If peer to peer isn't an option for you, probably the easiest option is to request someone burn you a CD/DVD with the contents and post it - Dave is taking along some of those to this weekend's Retro Fusion 08 event, to hand out, AIUI.

Sam.

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Arcadian
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Postby Arcadian » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:02 am

CMcDougall wrote:If someone had already split the whole 144 STH collection discs into .ssd discs, can they upload a zipped file of it, will save me lots of clicking :wink:

I'll take care of this for you, Col ... gimme 10 mins ...

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Arcadian
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Postby Arcadian » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:11 am

Col, PM sent ...

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CMcDougall
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Postby CMcDougall » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:20 am

Thanks Dave :wink: , can now del if u wish.

Have you got this board already Dave?? can you /anyone answer my above q's before i order the bits, and turn the garage upside down to find my solder iron :lol:
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