5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

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dominicbeesley
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5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:46 pm

I'm trying to find some of these - with little luck so far.

Does anyone know of a source for a small number (10 or so)?

Also, I'm trying to find is there a "compatible" connector but with more pins i.e. a 8 or 9 way DIN socket that would take a 5 pin plug?

D

JonC
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby JonC » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:20 pm

Do you mean like these?

Edit:

These may be better value if you're wanting a few.
Jon
Image

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1024MAK
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:27 pm

I don't think I know of any supplier that still sells PCB mount sockets, but chassis sockets are available (link) as are plugs and metal plugs.

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myelin
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby myelin » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:13 pm

Plenty of PCB mount sockets available in the 'circular connectors' section at Digikey: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/con ... ectors/436

You want:

Number of Positions: 5
Mounting Type: Through Hole, Right Angle
Shell Size - Insert: DIN (180 degree)

I'm guessing this is probably the one you want: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... 0-ND/97033
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dominicbeesley
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:59 pm

Thanks all for the replies, I should have maybe been clearer - I'm looking for a serial socket (see here: http://shalewyn.com/indexer.php?m=RetroComputing&n=Acorn&o=BBCserialcable)

Jon C - those are stero 180 degree DIN, the BBC serial port is in a 360 degree domino configuration with a pin in the centre and 4 pins around circle 90 degrees apart

1024MAK, I really needed some PCB mount ones (I'm making a bbc shaped motherboard) in the same size factor.

myelin, thanks, I tried that (and RS, Farnell, mouser, etc) again lots of 180's but no domino style pcb mount ones.

I think though I've found some 8 pin ones that should work, these will (if they fit) allow for some extra pins (DCD, DTR, DSR, RI) whilst retaining compatibility with BBC spec leads, well half of them...(the 5 pin serial port in the BBC can be inserted in two orientations, only one of which works - I suspect the idea was to allow null-modem connections but somebody messed up the pin assignments!)

I don't know why the domino din 5 sockets are so rare! If the 8 pin ones fit the other option is to not add the extra pins but block up the extra holes!

D

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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby duikkie » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:02 am


RobC
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby RobC » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:41 am


There are various types of 5-pin DIN socket and these aren't the right ones. The Beeb serial port uses a 5-pin "domino" or 360 degree socket - these are the much more common 180 degree variety.

Here's a picture of what the socket should look like - notice the arrangement of the pins:
bbcpclnk.gif

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myelin
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby myelin » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Here's another pic for folks who are still confused about the kind of socket Dominic is looking for. The one in question is the RS423 socket in the center.

bbc model b din sockets.jpg

As RobC said above, most 5-pin DIN sockets look more like the cassette socket, with the holes arranged in a 180 degree or 240 degree arc. I believe my useless Digikey suggestion was for the 180 degree version :)
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dominicbeesley
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:18 am

Thanks everyone,

I still haven't found any 5 pin ones but I've found some 8 pin ones which are (almost) physically compatible. These will be good as I can use 5 pins for nomal BBC signals (Tx,Rx,CTS,RTS) and the extra 4 for (DCD,DSR,DTR,RI). They are not a 100% match - the centre pin is not actually bang on centre so but testing on a good quality plug it goes in without too much force.

I need to work out the correct pin assignments...my last set of boards I managed to get the serial connector wrong and the 6 pin video connector backwards!

For reference they're LUMBERG 0105 08-1 (Farnell 2677771) http://uk.farnell.com/lumberg/0105-08-1 ... dp/2677771

Keep your eyes peeled though if anyone sees some genuine 5 pin or something with more pins that is 100% compatible I'd still be interested!

D

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hoglet
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby hoglet » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:13 am

Dominic,

The only thing to be wary of with the 8-pin socket is that the orientation indent is at the top, where as on the 5-pin socket it is at each side.

So I don't think it will be possible to plug in a standard Beeb serial cable with the correct orientation.

Dave

dominicbeesley
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:42 pm

Yes I will have to turn it 90 degrees...but I'll wire it up to accommodate thay. More problematic is that I've just checked my three cables two are wired one way, one the other (all have single key plugs). This wouldn't matter on the beeb but would matter here...not the end of the world though....

dominicbeesley
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:20 pm

I'm finally getting round to this and I've come up with this, any comments?

Code: Select all

SERIAL PORT
===========
BBC                     6809
---                     ----
    ___________             ___________         +-----+-----+--------------+
   /     v     \           /     2     \        | 6809| BBC | Function     |
  /   A     B   \         /   5     4   \       +-----+-----+--------------+
  |             |         |             |       |  1  |  -  | DCD/RI jumper|
  |      C      |         |  3   8   1  |       |  2  |  -  | DSR          |
  |             |         |             |       |  3  |  -  | DTR          |
  \   E     D   /         \   7     6   /       |  4  |  B  | Tx           |
   \_____^_____/           \_____^_____/        |  5  |  A  | Rx           |
                                                |  6  |  D  | CTS          |
                                                |  7  |  E  | RTS          |
                                                |  8  |  C  | Gnd          |
                                                +-----+-----+--------------+
Assuming most cables made as per Sprow : http://www.sprow.co.uk/bbc/extraserial.htm i.e. index between D/E



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yellowpig
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby yellowpig » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:14 pm

I got a couple of these "Domino" DINs a while back from here: http://cpc.farnell.com/deltron-enclosures/611-0520/5-pin-domino-black-din-plug/dp/CN00054, and apparently they still have some of them in stock.

However, although they are described as "Domino", and they were when I bought them, the photo is of something different. Maybe the photo is wrong, or maybe they have changed the product and now describe it wrongly.

David

dominicbeesley
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:05 am

Thanks David, yes the pictures on CPC/Farnell websites can be misleading, though from the printed catalogue they would seem to be dominoes.

I got a good stock of 5 pin male plugs in case they become unobtainable a while back...no idea where they went!

The questions I'm really asking are:
i) if I have to "guess" which side to put a single index notch should it go between D&E or A&B
ii) does the choice of pins for the extra (DCD, DSR, DTR) pins look sensible?
iii) I have to lose one of RI, DCD or DSR, which is least useful?

D

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BigEd
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby BigEd » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:37 am

A word of caution: I think there's a chance the middle pin of an 8-pin DIN is not in the centre but offset by 0.7mm. See
http://www.hosiden.com/product/pdf/e_din.pdf
(Also note that there are two 8-pin geometries: the other one isn't even a regular 45 degree pattern. But that one might not be DIN.)

DIN-45326.png

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yellowpig
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby yellowpig » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:18 am

I show details of how to wire up one of these for BBC-to-PC serial transfer on my website at: http://www.cowsarenotpurple.co.uk/bbccomputer/serialcable.html. This gives the pin numberings and connections at both ends. (This is for connection to a PC COM port with a 9-pin or 25-pin D-plug.) It works using Xfer using the default setting of "handshake=dsr_dtr".

David

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1024MAK
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby 1024MAK » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:29 am

dominicbeesley wrote:iii) I have to lose one of RI, DCD or DSR, which is least useful?

Listed as least useful to most useful...
RI is Ring Indicator and is only useful if you have a PSTN modem connected up and your software needs to know about incoming calls/connections. It is an output from the modem to the computer/terminal.

DCD is Data Carrier Detect. Again another modem signal. This is an output that tells the computer/terminal/line printer that the modem is receiving a high enough carrier signal level from the remote modem and that an analogue connection is present. It does NOT indicate if any data is being received.

DSR is Data Set Ready. Output from the modem to the computer/terminal/line printer. Informs the computer that the modem is ready to send and receive data. Is also sometimes used for handshaking instead of RTS and CTS handshaking.

Mark
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MartinB
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby MartinB » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:56 am

This is the configuration I use for UPURS whose standard speed is 115k baud but it works happily at 230k baud too. Modern USB-serial adaptors perform better than legacy RS232 ports at higher speeds but as long as the given host supports robust CTS/RTS handshaking then I've never found a remote device that doesn't work with this configuration.

Image


IMG_0016.PNG
(61.66 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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jgharston
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby jgharston » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:21 am

I'm very strongly tempted to recommend you use a standard 9-pin D connector. I've many times been tempted to replace the 5-pin domino on my Beebs with a 9-pin D.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

dominicbeesley
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Re: 5 pin din domino pcb mount sockets

Postby dominicbeesley » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:29 am

Thanks for all the responses lads,

Big Ed, you are quite right, they're not centered...bugger! They still fit without force though! 0.7mm is probably a bit out of tolerance though....

Thanks 1024MAK, that's as I thought. I'll make DCD/RI jumper selectable for pin 1, there will also be a 10 pin PC-motherboard (Intel) connector but RI/DCD won't both be connected to that. Mainly be cause it would require another MAX232 chip.

Would it be acceptable to make RI work on TTL with a simple series resistor / reverse catch diode?

Thanks Yellowpig, that has the index between RTS/CTS so agrees with Sprow. I don't wire my cross-overs like that I find that more stuff (or more stuff that I've tried) seems to work better (i.e. lose less data) if wired up like this: http://authorityfile.net/software/downl ... -cable.txt but as always with Serial YMMV! Though in one of my boxes I do have a lead made up to your spec that I have used with success in the past.

MartinB, I've not tried that yet, though connected to my PC via a RTS/CTS cable and using NoICE debugger the 16550 works reliably at 115200, I get the occassional problem at greater speeds but that seems to be down to the PC rather than the 8 bit end! The 16 byte buffer in the 16550 helps, I was thinking of changing up to a single NS16C2752 with 64byte buffers but that would require another round of prototyping and feels too much like cheating!

I'm surprised that that works though as 0V for CTS/Rx is in no-mans land between a 0 and a 1, though I have found plenty of USB serial ports that claim RS232 that are more like TTL...

JGH, I considered that - but I've decided to stick to my original "brief" and disallow case-cutting i.e. the new motherboard should fit in an original beeb case with no dremel action. I could possibly poke a db9 through the round hole but when I looked I couldn't find a pcb mount job that gave the right clearances...

D


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