SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

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simoni
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SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:53 am

Just a note to say that the SmallyMouse2 project is now released.

SmallyMouse2 is a universal USB mouse to quadrature mouse converter designed to work with any retro computer that used 5V quadrature mice. The board has both 20 pin IDC (for BBC Micro and Master user-port) and a 10 pin generic header for the mouse cable of your choice. Physical testing with retro machines is ongoing; so far the following Acorn machines have been verified as 100% compatible:

Acorn BBC Micro Model B
Acorn Master Turbo
Acorn Archimedes A440/1
Acorn RISC PC 600

The adapter is powered from the host, but also has the option of external power if desired/necessary.

SmallyMouse2 complete PCB.jpg


The firmware has been completely rewritten from the original SmallyMouse. The quadrature emulation is now far more 'analogue' - the frequency of the output is carefully controlled to create a close emulation of the 'analogue' feel from mechanical quadrature mice to ensure maximum compatibility.

Other features:

Real USB host-mode support - works with all USB HID mouse compliant devices - even wireless mice (not a PS/2 adapter)
USB bootloader - Initial and upgrade firmware flash via USB (no programmer required)
8-bit host quadrature rate-limiting - configuration header can be used to prevent overrun of 8-bit VIAs for glitch free mouse input
10 pin expansion header - 8 GPIOs including UART and I2C for adding your own features (LEDs, switches, serial debug plus the potential to use the USB host for other purposes)
JTAG support - JTAG programming header can be added for development and debug work
Low component count
Fully open-source and open-hardware (software and KiCAD PCB design files available on GitHub - GPLv3 and CC licensed)

The project page is available here:

http://www.waitingforfriday.com/?p=827

And the GitHub repository is here:

https://github.com/simoninns/SmallyMouse2

/Simon

Zarchos
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby Zarchos » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:01 am

Wonderful achievement !
Thank you.
Check your PP in the following days : words are nice, money is even nicer.

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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:16 am

Thanks :) Donations (big and small) are always greatly appreciated and helps me with both continued development and funding the next idea!

Zarchos
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby Zarchos » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:41 am

simoni wrote:Thanks :) Donations (big and small) are always greatly appreciated and helps me with both continued development and funding the next idea!


Very well understood, Sir !

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TheCorfiot
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby TheCorfiot » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:28 am

With Official support from Simon, i have geared up to produce 50 fully built and tested units for you lovely people.

First shipment of 10 will be ready to ship in a week followed by 20 more the following week, if demand is there i can reorder a larger qty.

Current price is £35 plus p&p

hope to have some piccys soon.

:)

xargle
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Smallymouse 2 USB->Quadrature adapter

Postby xargle » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:16 am

http://www.waitingforfriday.com/?p=827

V2 of Simon Inns' USB->Quad adapter including Arc adapter instructions. £35 each built.


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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:50 pm

You made Hackaday


My 19th project published on their site :D Now I just have to dream up number 20

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TheCorfiot
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby TheCorfiot » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:04 pm

I have one SmallyMouse2 left for sale if anyone would like it.

Not sure I will be making anymore

Regards
Bas :)

aotta
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby aotta » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:21 am

TheCorfiot wrote:I have one SmallyMouse2 left for sale if anyone would like it.

Not sure I will be making anymore

Regards
Bas :)


i was looking for a way to use usb mouse with my olivetti prodest pc128s....
how much for it?

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IanS
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby IanS » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:17 pm


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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:41 pm

I see CJE/4D are now selling them


I'm happy to see that they are popular :) Chris (from CJE) did ask permission to make them (even though it's open-source/hardware and he doesn't need my permission) - and he's attributed and linked back to the project pages, so CJE get a thumbs-up from me - cases look nice too!

I believe that Bas is still making them too and he's a stand-up chap also. So now you have choices; it can only be a good thing :)

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IanS
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby IanS » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:45 pm

Do you know who is doing the manufacturing for CJE?

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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:49 pm

I don't know the exact details (they are being assembled professionally in the UK though); but I believe Chris from CJE is on the forums, so you could ask him directly?

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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby CJE-4D » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:00 pm

IanS wrote:Do you know who is doing the manufacturing for CJE?


Castle!

No not that Castle, but Castle Technologies in Stranraer!

n.b. we now have good stock of the assembled and programmed boards but only a few cases at present, we are having to wait until mid September for more case:-(

Chris

aotta
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby aotta » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:08 pm

The bbc master version works in amx or marconi mode?

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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:22 pm

The bbc master version works in amx or marconi mode?


It works in AMX mode; this is because most software is for AMX and the only important thing that used Marconi (i.e. Domesday/Acorn VFS) also works fine with AMX.

If you really want marconi RB2 then you can simply wire up a ribbon cable to the output header (either the SIL or IDC and just move the wires - as the wiring is the only difference). The original SmallyMouse1 supported both; but it turned out to be a pointless feature, so I took it out of SmallyMouse2 :)

aotta
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby aotta » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:50 pm

Thank you for the info! I have 2 bbc master compact (and a A3000) so i made an adapter based on arduino nano, that support both Marconi (in the Compact is used by the welcome disk) and Amx, if left mouse button pressed at boot time. My solution is not accurate as yours, because i did't managed the timing problems, but for compact (and its db9 connector) i am afraid Smallymouse2 is not the best solution... I will try it for my future Bbc models!

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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:01 pm

Actually SmallyMouse2 will work fine with a Master Compact; you simply wire the DB9 to the SIL header (or an Amiga, Atari ST or just about anything else that used a quadrature mouse). The firmware is open-source (and bootloader programmable from the USB port) and there is an extra expansion header on the side (with 8 more GPIOs), so you could easily modify it to do both AMX and RB2 if that's what's needed (hence the 'universal' part of the name) :)

But if you have a solution that works, that's cool too!

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TheCorfiot
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby TheCorfiot » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:55 am

Next new Batch now available to buy

Complete kits with cables for plug and play available..

Drop us a PM

Cheers all
:)

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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby VincentVega » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:01 pm

Thanks to Bas, I now have my own SmallyMouse2 to play with, and very impressive it is too. I opted for a cable for 32-bit Acorns (RPC et al). I'd also like to use it with an Atari ST and (if I can find a suitable one on Ebay) an Amiga, so I need to make my own cables.

Are there any connectors in particular that I should be using? They look like standard 2.54 pitch affairs - Farnell has a wide variety:

http://uk.farnell.com/w/c/connectors/wi ... rows=1rows

Does it matter which one I choose? Prices vary from 23p (Harwin - never heard of 'em) to 98p (TE Connectivity) for the connector.

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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:06 pm

Any single-row female 2.54mm pitch connector should work. Just be aware that, with an ST, you may need to provide a 5V supply. Take a look at the project page on my website for cabling details (and all the rest of the documentation) around the project:

http://www.waitingforfriday.com/?p=827

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1024MAK
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:35 pm

simoni wrote:Any single-row female 2.54mm pitch connector should work. Just be aware that, with an ST, you may need to provide a 5V supply. Take a look at the project page on my website for cabling details (and all the rest of the documentation) around the project:

http://www.waitingforfriday.com/?p=827

Confused :?
The Atari ST mouse (joystick) port has a +5V supply pin.

Mark
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1024MAK
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:41 pm

VincentVega wrote:Harwin - never heard of 'em)
Harwin make lots of different connectors. Please don't ask me to guess how many that I have...
Seriously, Harwin connectors are fine :D More than good enough for home use. And often they are good value.

Have a look at their web site ;-)

Mark
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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:52 pm

Confused :?


It does, but the mA output from it is very low apparently and the 5Vs is often 4.5V... and real USB requires 5Vs. Bas "TheCorfiot" tested a ST machine and it had drop-out issues caused by the supply. I don't own an ST, so I can't test; but SmallyMouse2 is designed to support an external 5V regulated supply (due to this very reason) so there is no reason not to just grab one and try.

Generally, if there is a PS/2 based mouse interface out there for the machine (that provides a USB plug output) then SmallyMouse2 will work as well. However, I like to be careful with my claims :) and no-one has confirmed or denied the test group (of 1 machine) yet.

Confirmed working are Beebs, Archs, RISC PCs, Sinclair PC200 and Amigas. Unless others tell me "hey it worked!" then that's the 'tested' list so-far. If anyone has connected it to something not on the list then a copy of the pin-out and confirmation that it works would be appreciated. Then I can add the machine and pin-out to the project page for the benefit of all (there is also an open 'issue' on github if people would prefer to report it that way).

I also measured the power requirements and provided the details and recommended minimums on the project page (since different USB mice draw different amounts of current, even if they are all 5Vs). If the mA output from the machine is low then I'd recommend using a wireless USB mouse; since they generally draw the least current from the USB port.

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1024MAK
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:13 pm

The 5V output is only limited by the volt-drop on the supply cable and PCB tracks, plus a little bit of loss through the RF choke. It's a fed from the computers main +5V supply rail. What it can't supply, is large currents (say 100mA and greater), as you risk damage to PCB tracks.
The STFM keyboard schematic is here:Image

Other PS2 to "bus" mouse interfaces work fine from the Atari ST mouse ports.

One problem with Atari ST computers, is that the SMPSU electrolytic capacitors are aging, this can result in the outputs being lower than they should be. Including the main 5V rail. One symptom is the display being affected durin floppy disk access.

How much current does your circuit need? Ahh, I'll have to go and read your documentation...

I can test on various Atari machines (STFM, STe, Mega, TT) but not until about two weeks time :(

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to add various bits...
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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:24 pm

Let me quote the project web page linked above:

--

When powering SmallyMouse2 from the host computer attention should be given to the required amount of current consumed by both SmallyMouse2 and the connected USB mouse. The USB specification generally limits the maximum USB device consumption to 100mA and this figure should be used as the ‘normal’ consumption of USB mice in general. The SmallyMouse2 device (running firmware v1.1) was measured in the range of 59mA to 61mA (the power consumption varies depending on the activity levels of the mouse).

A safe assumption is that the total required current supplied by the host should be 180mA (in total for both the mouse and SmallyMouse2).

In addition, the following mice were physically tested (power consumption includes the SmallyMouse2 board):

Logitech Performance MX wireless mouse: 83.1mA
Microsoft Comfort Mouse 6000 wired mouse: 74.2 – 86.4mA
Kensington Orbit Optical trackball wired mouse: 106-121.5mA

--

SmallyMouse2 is an AVR microcontroller, so it uses around the same current as any other of the PS/2 adapters (which are typically AVR or PIC based too). If the port supplies only 50mA and you plug any PS/2 or USB mouse into it - no matter the interface board - you will be over-spec. Same goes for Amigas, but the quoted maximum is very conservative it seems. This all varies from machine to machine and manufacturer to manufacturer, which is why I went into some detail about it on the project page.

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1024MAK
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:28 pm

Thanks for the extra information. Okay, I will investigate in about two weeks time (see edited post above).

Mark
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simoni
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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby simoni » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:42 pm

Sounds good Mark. I wasn't trying to be snarky about the docs :) It's just a good idea to give it a read through if you want to test stuff; I would not like to feel responsible for damaged computers (even if it wouldn't technically be my fault)!

If you get some results, positive or negative, it would be great if you could share your test results. I'll happily add any additional information to the project page. The good thing is that the SIL connector on SmallyMouse2 is designed to make it easy to externally power the board. That's why there are 2 GND pins in the SIL header; you can route all but the last 0V and 5V to the host (including the extra 0V line so the board is coupled to the host ground) and then the last 2 pins run to your DC jack or whatever type of power connector you want to use.

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Re: SmallyMouse2 - Universal USB to Quadrature mouse converter

Postby VincentVega » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:38 pm

simoni wrote:Any single-row female 2.54mm pitch connector should work. Just be aware that, with an ST, you may need to provide a 5V supply. Take a look at the project page on my website for cabling details (and all the rest of the documentation) around the project:

http://www.waitingforfriday.com/?p=827


Thanks, Simon, much appreciated.

Very, very impressed with SmallyMouse2, by the way.


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