Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

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paulb
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Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby paulb » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:18 pm

So, davidb and I were talking about the possibility of doing a board that can take Electron cartridges, but doing so involves using sockets that can interface with the cartridge edge connectors. Does anyone have any links to existing products of this kind, preferably ones that can be broken out at a sensible pitch for prototyping/breadboarding?

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:51 pm

I may have found some, but for some reason the seller does not like my eBay account despite me getting another member to ask on my behalf and me sending eBay messages :evil:

I will try to use a roundabout route to get some...

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Prime
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby Prime » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:04 pm

They are also of course the same pitch as the ISA connectors used in the PC world, so maybe you could use those and cut them down to size.....

Cheers.

Phill.

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sydney
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby sydney » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:53 pm

Prime wrote:They are also of course the same pitch as the ISA connectors used in the PC world, so maybe you could use those and cut them down to size.....

Cheers.

Phill.


I'm sure that was the solution when building the slogger plus 2 boards Arcadian was selling a couple of years back.

paulb
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby paulb » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:03 pm

Prime wrote:They are also of course the same pitch as the ISA connectors used in the PC world, so maybe you could use those and cut them down to size.....


Although everyone on the Internet writing about ISA connectors neglects to mention the physical connector specifications beyond the number of signals, it appears that ISA connectors accommodate a thickness of 0.062" (1.57mm) and use a pitch of 0.100" (2.54mm).

Meanwhile, the Acorn Electron Cartridge Interface Specification (AppNote 014) says this: "Cartridges plug into a 44 way gold plated edge connector arranged on each side of a 0.05 inch slot as 22 ways of 0.05" x 0.5" on 0.1" centres."

I'm guessing that a search for 22 connectors/row, 2 rows (thus 44 connectors total), 0.1" pitch, female gender, and maybe a thickness of 0.062" is valid here.

paulb
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby paulb » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:01 pm

Not quite the same, obviously, but recent surfing on eBay dug this up: 4 x Acorn Electron 48way interface edge conector

Prime
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby Prime » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:28 pm

paulb wrote:I'm guessing that a search for 22 connectors/row, 2 rows (thus 44 connectors total), 0.1" pitch, female gender, and maybe a thickness of 0.062" is valid here.


Ahh yes digikey, the "if you want to buy it outside the USA and it's less than £75, then give us £22 extra" merchants.

Or certainly they used to be, which is why I pretty much never buy from them.

Cheers.

Phill.

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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby paulb » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:37 pm

Prime wrote:
paulb wrote:I'm guessing that a search for 22 connectors/row, 2 rows (thus 44 connectors total), 0.1" pitch, female gender, and maybe a thickness of 0.062" is valid here.


Ahh yes digikey, the "if you want to buy it outside the USA and it's less than £75, then give us £22 extra" merchants.

Or certainly they used to be, which is why I pretty much never buy from them.


Other supplier suggestions are welcome. :wink: I've never bought anything from them, but their site presumably gives some indication of general availability.

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fordp
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby fordp » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:48 pm

Digikey is expensive for orders below £50. It is cheaper than most above this level and has the biggest selection of parts available from any supplier in the world!

If you do a group buy you will soon hit fifty quid.
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sweh
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby sweh » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:13 am

Prime wrote:Ahh yes digikey, the "if you want to buy it outside the USA and it's less than £75, then give us £22 extra" merchants.

If you want a US shipping address for low cost stuff, then ping me. I might be able to act as a middle man, for the cost of whatever USPS costs to send on to the UK.
Rgds
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daveejhitchins
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby daveejhitchins » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:30 pm

sweh wrote:
Prime wrote:Ahh yes digikey, the "if you want to buy it outside the USA and it's less than £75, then give us £22 extra" merchants.

If you want a US shipping address for low cost stuff, then ping me. I might be able to act as a middle man, for the cost of whatever USPS costs to send on to the UK.
Stephen:

Just seen your offer ^^ and realised that I hadn't got back to you about the piece of gear I was after . . . . Please accept my apology!

The Norweagan company I did some work for has tentatively agreed to forward the package on to me, from the US, however, they're busy at the moment, as they've just received their first production order for fingerprint sensors . . . Long time waiting, seemingly!

I've just given them another nudge and I'm waiting to see what happens.

But, many thanks for your initial offer and so sorry I didn't get back to you earlier.

BRs - Dave H :D
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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby 1024MAK » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:42 pm

I think these may be suitable:-

5pc Industrial Card Edge Slot Socket Connector 22x2P 44P 2.54mm 0.1" 3A RoHS
Item eBay number: 140888520037
Approx price £1.78
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140888520037

But until I have received some, am reluctant to even think about recommending them.

Note that last week eBay said this about the seller (wonderco_buy):- "This seller is currently away until 14 Feb, 2016". "If you make a purchase, there may be a delay in processing your order".

If the edge connectors are okay, and what I think they are, they should be just what we want for use when building (or repairing) Electron expansions.

For some reason the seller will not allow me to buy from him. So I have arranged another way of obtaining some thanks to a very helpful forum member.

More news once I have tried one.

Mark
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daveejhitchins
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby daveejhitchins » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:10 pm

1024MAK wrote:5pc Industrial Card Edge Slot Socket Connector 22x2P 44P 2.54mm 0.1" 3A RoHS
Item eBay number: 140888520037
Approx price £1.78
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140888520037
Mark:
Can you double check the drawing for these connectors, please.

For a 44 way connector (2 x 22 way) the eBay drawing shows, for measurement 'B', 58.92mm - I've just checked that measurement on one of my boards drawings at 56mm. I'll double check on other boards, later this evening, as I'm out in a moment.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby 1024MAK » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:14 pm

Hence why I want to get one and try a "fit".

The best guide to measurement for the PCB is Martins EUP thread. Lots of PCB edge connector measurements in that :mrgreen:

Mark
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daveejhitchins
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby daveejhitchins » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:18 pm

OK, just checked . . . I use 56.5mm. So not taking tolerances into account 58.92 - 56.5 / 2 = 1.21mm spare at either side. This would allow the cartridge to move too far unless the sides were padded out to take-up the slack.

Dave h :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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MartinB
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby MartinB » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:44 pm

Mark wrote:The best guide to measurement for the PCB is Martins EUP thread.

Ha! Indeed Mark - they're sooooo long and have sooooo many contributors, my threads are the best guide to absolutely everything..... :D O:) \:D/


Hmmm... :-k


...although, if you recall, perhaps not on how to measure an Electron cartridge port PCB... #-o :lol:
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myelin
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby myelin » Mon May 15, 2017 8:42 pm

I measured an Acornsoft cartridge with callipers recently, and it was 2.25" wide, so 57.15 mm.

The socket I used for my USB cart interface is a AMP 5530843-4 from Digikey with a slot width of 2.3" (58.42 mm) and recommended card width of 2.286" (58.06 mm). If I'm not careful plugging in cartridges, I do see errors, so it would be nice to find something with a slightly narrower slot width. I'll probably try 3D printing a cover that narrows the slot a little.
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in San Francisco: http://myelin.nz/
Having fun making hardware projects for the Electron!
So far: 32k flash cart, USB cart interface, 3-cart expansion, Elk PiTubeDirect. Later: Dual ported ram cart.

paulb
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby paulb » Mon May 15, 2017 9:08 pm

myelin wrote:I measured an Acornsoft cartridge with callipers recently, and it was 2.25" wide, so 57.15 mm.

The socket I used for my USB cart interface is a AMP 5530843-4 from Digikey with a slot width of 2.3" (58.42 mm) and recommended card width of 2.286" (58.06 mm). If I'm not careful plugging in cartridges, I do see errors, so it would be nice to find something with a slightly narrower slot width. I'll probably try 3D printing a cover that narrows the slot a little.


This one, I guess. Nice work on the cartridge adapter, by the way!

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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby myelin » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:08 am

Seeing as I have a Master 128 (well, a motherboard, at least) now, I tried plugging in my home-made cartridges (tab width 57mm on the PCB layout), and it looks like the slots are *slightly* narrower than those on the Electron.

Can someone with a cartridge that fits in a Master 128 measure the width of the part of the PCB that fits inside the socket on the Master? It looks like Master cartridges might need to be cut slightly narrower than Electron ones.
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in San Francisco: http://myelin.nz/
Having fun making hardware projects for the Electron!
So far: 32k flash cart, USB cart interface, 3-cart expansion, Elk PiTubeDirect. Later: Dual ported ram cart.

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MartinB
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby MartinB » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:57 pm

Just measured (with digi-calipers) the pcb tongues of two genuine Acorn BBC Master carts and both are 56.4mm

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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby daveejhitchins » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:20 pm

myelin wrote:and it looks like the slots are *slightly* narrower than those on the Electron.
The main difference between the Master Cartridge socket and the Electron one is: The Master socket is solid plastic containing the contacts - The Electron one has 'end' caps which can move slightly and invariably do! I'm away, currently, so I can't take photos.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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myelin
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby myelin » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:45 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:The main difference between the Master Cartridge socket and the Electron one is: The Master socket is solid plastic containing the contacts - The Electron one has 'end' caps which can move slightly and invariably do! I'm away, currently, so I can't take photos.

That's right... the Master socket 'pinches' together at the ends. Another thought I had was that maybe my custom cartridge PCB is thicker than an original -- I'll have to try plugging my (2.25" / 57mm wide) Electron Hopper cartridge into the Master socket, to see if it fits in there or not.
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in San Francisco: http://myelin.nz/
Having fun making hardware projects for the Electron!
So far: 32k flash cart, USB cart interface, 3-cart expansion, Elk PiTubeDirect. Later: Dual ported ram cart.

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danielj
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby danielj » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:20 pm

It should do - I use my acornsoft electron language cartridges in my master.

d.

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MartinB
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby MartinB » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:30 pm

All my carts happily mix and match mechanically between the Elk and Master. (Did you notice I measured some for you btw?)

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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby myelin » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:45 pm

MartinB wrote:All my carts happily mix and match mechanically between the Elk and Master. (Did you notice I measured some for you btw?)

Yes - thanks for that! 56.4 mm is only slightly smaller than my 57mm cartridges; very interesting :) Will have to go test out all the various boards I have at home to see which fit and which don't!
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in San Francisco: http://myelin.nz/
Having fun making hardware projects for the Electron!
So far: 32k flash cart, USB cart interface, 3-cart expansion, Elk PiTubeDirect. Later: Dual ported ram cart.

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Plus 1 (or Master 128) Cartridge Sockets

Postby 1024MAK » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:37 am

Somewhere in one of Martin's threads, the subject of the width of the Elk's cartridges has been discussed extensively...

Mark
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