RISC iX - Cloned!

chat about arc/risc pc gaming & RISC OS software here (NOT the core OS!)

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ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:25 pm

dangardner wrote:Unlike my A410/1, my A5000 does actually seem to like the taste of UNIX! This makes me very happy! :-)

Mine did not, throwing an address exception, so I removed everything except the SCSI card, sorted out sync to get a working monitor and am now looking at X desktop.

adfsls returns "Floppy 0 hung
adfsls: Cannot open /dev/rfdf1024" so apparently no floppy support, unsurprisingly.

33MHz ARM3 with FPA11, 8MB RAM, Wizzo5 ROM in 5th column but modules unplugged. It usually also contains CC Gold, EtherH and a 486 podule, which I will have to add back one by one to see what breaks.
UPDATE from Sunday afternoon: fully repopulated and still booting, single user at least, from the 4corn image (now cloned to another disk). Huzzah!
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:23 pm

dangardner wrote:
DutchAcorn wrote:Any suggestions to get this one step further? It has been a lot of fun so far but :D
What happens if you drop to the CLI and run this?

Code: Select all

*filer_opendir Riscixfs:$
Also see if you can boot into RISC iX using *BOOT. I discovered the *filer_opendir at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/c ... TjxS_jy5MJ which also has some interesting background information on RISCiXFS.

Indeed.

The info about the partition map and the RISCOS section appearing as partition 6 (or "sdNg") caught my eye. Most mkdisktab output I have seen gives pa, pb and ph for Root, Swap and whole disc (plus pc, pd etc if defined) but not pg - except one, from my Compaq-branded Fujitsu, which happens to be the same drive showing initialisation problems and the disktab I have created most recently. Looking at /etc/disktab from an R260 installation, there is a "pg" entry for the Conner CP3100 and for "whitbred" (ca. 100MB Winchester), E40s1, E60s, "CDC" Winchester (ca. 170MB) and a Nomai 540MB cartridge drive. But "pg" is missing from a mkdisktab output for a NEC 1700S (ca. 1.7GB). I'd guess it's a matter of different versions of scsidm and/or RISCiX.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

ajw99uk
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Location: W Yorks, UK

Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:15 pm

SarahWalker wrote:Not sure why the border colour keeps cycling though, it's a little distracting!

I think this may happen when the network is not configured. I get a flashing border (in monochrome) if I start X without having first done "ifconfig et0 ..." - single user mode not doing this for me, but no flashing if startx is issued after ifconfig/route commands.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

timw
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby timw » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:12 pm

The flashing border normally indicates that the contents of one of the (other) virtual terminals has changed. Use <Break> and the cursor keys to toggle between them (see R140 Operations Guide page 37). You can press N on the menu screen to disable the border flashing.

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:36 am

timw wrote:The flashing border normally indicates that the contents of one of the (other) virtual terminals has changed. Use <Break> and the cursor keys to toggle between them (see R140 Operations Guide page 37). You can press N on the menu screen to disable the border flashing.

Thank you. Operating in single user, I had thought there was only one terminal and, with only 4MB RAM, just one X screen. I really must read the guide through, as though written for 1.1x the bits I have looked at for specific issues seem to remain useful for 1.2x.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

Boydie
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby Boydie » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:45 am

It actually works at all on an A5000?

I was formerly under the impression that it couldn't cope with IOEB (which didn't exist at the time) and would die horribly. Presumably, floppy and ide won't work; I'd always assumed podules wouldn't either.

Now I'm going to have to give it a try, and see if I can add a fifth riscix machine to the fold (good thing I've got a spare scsi drive).

Wonder if A4000 is a chipset step too far...

SarahWalker
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby SarahWalker » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:45 pm

I doubt any of the RISCiX compatible SCSI podules are available in an A4000-friendly 8-bit minipodule form.

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:19 pm

Boydie wrote:It actually works at all on an A5000?

I was formerly under the impression that it couldn't cope with IOEB (which didn't exist at the time) and would die horribly. Presumably, floppy and ide won't work; I'd always assumed podules wouldn't either.

I tried ages ago and it did fail, so I had the same impression (short of find a version with a tweaked kernel etc).

But seeing that success with an A5000 had been reported here, I had another go. Same SCSI drive booted fine in A540, R140 and A5000, using the 4corn installation.

AKA32 in the A540/A5000 and AKA31 in the R140, all with version 1.10 of the SCSI modules and all with RISC OS 3.1.

As previously reported, floppy does not work. I have not tried serial/parallel in the A5000 (nor on the Arcs come to that).
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

Boydie
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby Boydie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:46 am

SarahWalker wrote:I doubt any of the RISCiX compatible SCSI podules are available in an A4000-friendly 8-bit minipodule form.


Oh, yeah. I'd have noticed that... Eventually! #-o

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:46 am

ajw99uk wrote:I already had a couple of other kernels from an R260 donated to Bletchley Park, and thought it may be down to kernel differences that prevented booting with the SCSI card in slot 1 rather than 0 in my past experience. However, experiments this morning show that slot 1 seems fine, and better for keeping the SCSI card cool (I can see why the A680 reportedly had problems with is onboard SCSI overheating, and now regret not having kept a short ribbon cable). Slot 0 perhaps mandatory for RISCiX 1.xx in the R140, per notes in the old boot file).

Humph - slot 1 not working again. Same kernel but different HD. Other difference being arrangement of other podules, trying to get best fit for backplane position vs length of podule. But I noticed that podules are reported in slot order, after the test for m/b ST506. Previously slot 0 unoccupied so SCSI card seen first. With Ether1 in slot 0, panic. Move Ether1 to slot 2, boots ok. Hypothesis that the SCSI card needs to be highest priority else boot fails.

Interested so hear if that chimes with others' experience. And wondering if a third party podule would have the same effect (though no time to test that just now). If RISC iX has no driver for a podule in slot 0, it may still treat the SCSI in slot 1 as "top priority".
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

Boydie
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby Boydie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:13 am

My R140 and A540 run fine for riscix with ethernet in slot 0 and scsi in slot 1. I've not checked how I've arranged them in the A4xx, but I suspect it will be the same (more direct cable run from slot 1), and that's fine with riscix too.

On boot-up, the kernel (either vanilla 1.21 or nsict #10) declares it's booting from scsi, then identifies and lists the podules in slot order.

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:12 am

Boydie wrote:My R140 and A540 run fine for riscix with ethernet in slot 0 and scsi in slot 1. I've not checked how I've arranged them in the A4xx, but I suspect it will be the same (more direct cable run from slot 1), and that's fine with riscix too.

On boot-up, the kernel (either vanilla 1.21 or nsict #10) declares it's booting from scsi, then identifies and lists the podules in slot order.

Thanks, Boydie, seems worth investigating other causes here, such as the HD.

Which Ether podule (s) are you using? Ether1, which is the only RISC iX option I have, has no podule ROM so I wonder if that was skewing things. If you have Ether1 working in slot 0 that would rule out that theory.

Any chance you could share the #10 kernel? I don't think it's a matter of kernel version but useful to rule out with a known-good.

Ultimately I can live with a slightly longer cable rather than lose a podule slot, but thanks again for your info.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

Boydie
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby Boydie » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:03 pm

You'll have to ask crj about a copy of #10 kernel - it's his build. He may also remember the differences. Unfortunately, I can confirm that version doesn't work on an A5000. Not in a position to test the 4corn version atm, so don't know if it's my hardware.

The A420 (technically an A480) also has ether slot 0 and scsi slot 1 and riscix is happy.

Ether card wise, I'm running one AKA25, and a pair of AEH50s (Ether 1 and Ether 2 respectively, I think).

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:02 pm

Boydie wrote:You'll have to ask crj about a copy of #10 kernel - it's his build. He may also remember the differences. Unfortunately, I can confirm that version doesn't work on an A5000. Not in a position to test the 4corn version atm, so don't know if it's my hardware.

Thanks, let's see what crj says.
Boydie wrote:The A420 (technically an A480) also has ether slot 0 and scsi slot 1 and riscix is happy. Ether card wise, I'm running one AKA25, and a pair of AEH50s (Ether 1 and Ether 2 respectively, I think).

Yes, Ether1 = AKA25, so I'll have to look elsewhere for my glitch. Ho hum.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

RobC
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby RobC » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:29 am

ajw99uk wrote:Yes, Ether1 = AKA25, so I'll have to look elsewhere for my glitch. Ho hum.

My R260 used to give random panics due to track corrosion. They only went away when I patched up the worst affected tracks with kynar wire.

Might be worth cleaning contacts and checking connectors?

SteveBagley
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby SteveBagley » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:11 pm

This seems to be the best place to ask about RISX iX — there'll probably be a few more questions coming as I intend to upgrade one of my Arcs and install it for a play (I wonder if it’ll be the first A305 upgraded to be able to run Risc iX ;-))

But, I was reading about the Acorn R225 diskless Unix workstation which apparently netbooted off an R260. I was wondering how this booted? The potential options I can see where a specific RISC OS variant, modules added to the network card's ROM, or perhaps even using Econet to bootstrap things?

Anyone have any documentation on how this worked (or can point me to the bits I’ve missed)?

Steve

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:57 pm

SteveBagley wrote:But, I was reading about the Acorn R225 diskless Unix workstation which apparently netbooted off an R260. I was wondering how this booted? The potential options I can see where a specific RISC OS variant, modules added to the network card's ROM, or perhaps even using Econet to bootstrap things?

Anyone have any documentation on how this worked (or can point me to the bits I’ve missed)?

Steve

A R225 had a ROM podule with enough (on top of RISC OS 2.01) to find the boot server and bootstrap. Sorry, not sure which modules etc. I believe TNMoC has one.
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140

crj
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby crj » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:56 pm

As I recall, it only contained two relocatable modules.

The first was the TCP/IP module pared down to do UDP, not TCP. (For all I know it was the same one used for AUN?) The second was a netboot module, which could use bootp and tftp to load a kernel.

Once the kernel was in RAM, and had been passed supplementary bootp parameters, RISC OS's job was done.

ajw99uk
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Re: RISC iX - Cloned!

Postby ajw99uk » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:12 pm

ajw99uk wrote:Looking at /etc/disktab from an R260 installation, there is a "pg" entry for the Conner CP3100 and for "whitbred" (ca. 100MB Winchester), E40s1, E60s, "CDC" Winchester (ca. 170MB) and a Nomai 540MB cartridge drive. But "pg" is missing from a mkdisktab output for a NEC 1700S (ca. 1.7GB). I'd guess it's a matter of different versions of scsidm and/or RISCiX.


Another scsidm / mkdisktab query - what determines the blocksize? I have two outputs for the same drive, one is 4096 and the other is 8192. Looking at other entries, there seems little rhyme or reason unless again it's a version thing (scsidm as supplied with 1.1x using 8192 and scsidm as supplied with 1.2 using 4096?)
Running RISCOS: A5000, A540, R140, RiscPC, RPi B
Running *nix: SGI Fuel & Indigo2, RPi2, x86, amd64, RiscPC, A540, R140


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