!65Host & !65Tube

chat about arc/risc pc gaming & RISC OS software here (NOT the core OS!)

Related forum: adventures


User avatar
KarateEd
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:15 pm
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada

!65Host & !65Tube

Postby KarateEd » Sun Dec 13, 2015 2:32 am

Hi Again Folks,

Getting all my questions asked as soon as possible....

Ok, I understand you can use the above 2 emulators from the Archie to emulate Beeb goodness......well, I have the SSD files for the games in the High Score Challenge. I'm wondering if it's possible to run these SSD files from my diskette drive or the Hard Drive within either of these emulators?

So far I haven't been able to.....

Thanks once again......(seem to be repeating myself these days - is it time to retire?)

Ed......:-)

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby jms2 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:07 am

I don't think you can, unfortunately. SSD files were only invented with the arrival of Windows and Linux based emulators. The idea behind 65host was that it would be able to use the RiscOS filesystem more or less natively.

But anyway, 65host is not a good enough emulator to run most games. Back in the 1990s some amazing hacker managed to alter exile sufficiently so that you could play it in 65host, which was an incredible achievement. I guess simple games will work, but anything that does really nasty things with hardware probably won't.

User avatar
paulv
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:37 pm
Location: Leicestershire
Contact:

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby paulv » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:08 am

It's unlikely you'll be able to run commercial games using the !65Host applications unless those games are written in an entirely OS legal fashion. To get the most from the Beeb, most games hit the hardware directly and therefore aren't OS legal and won't run :-(

Paul

RobC
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby RobC » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:15 am

I've got !6502Em on my main Arc and it works well:
http://www.borcherds.co.uk/murklesoft/riscos/6502em.html

User avatar
trixster
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:45 am
Location: York

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby trixster » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:45 am

jms2 wrote:I don't think you can, unfortunately. SSD files were only invented with the arrival of Windows and Linux based emulators. The idea behind 65host was that it would be able to use the RiscOS filesystem more or less natively.

But anyway, 65host is not a good enough emulator to run most games. Back in the 1990s some amazing hacker managed to alter exile sufficiently so that you could play it in 65host, which was an incredible achievement. I guess simple games will work, but anything that does really nasty things with hardware probably won't.


Can you provide any details on how this was done? Are you saying someone got Exile to run on original Arc hardware under emulation?! I would love to get this working!
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + RPi2 CoPro + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO

steve3000
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 am

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby steve3000 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:05 pm

RobC wrote:I've got !6502Em on my main Arc and it works well:
http://www.borcherds.co.uk/murklesoft/riscos/6502em.html

I've been in touch with Mike about !6502Em over the last year or so - he is very keen to release this for all, along with the source code! :D

So I updated the source to allow !6502Em to run correctly on the RPi (under RO5.2) and I'm planning to spend a little more time on this over the Christmas break to do some further testing - I'll pull what I have together and check it all still runs on earlier machines (if anyone wants to volunteer to help test on early kit - Archimedes/RiscPC please PM me), then see if Mike's happy to release it at that point. :)

RobC
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby RobC » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:00 pm

steve3000 wrote:So I updated the source to allow !6502Em to run correctly on the RPi (under RO5.2) and I'm planning to spend a little more time on this over the Christmas break to do some further testing - I'll pull what I have together and check it all still runs on earlier machines (if anyone wants to volunteer to help test on early kit - Archimedes/RiscPC please PM me), then see if Mike's happy to release it at that point.

Great news Steve. I'm happy to help with the testing. Currently have an A3000, A540, R260 and RiscPC setup but I also have various other machines that I can dig out of the loft...

User avatar
KarateEd
Posts: 2917
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:15 pm
Location: Squamish, BC, Canada

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby KarateEd » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:09 pm

steve3000 wrote:
RobC wrote:I've got !6502Em on my main Arc and it works well:
http://www.borcherds.co.uk/murklesoft/riscos/6502em.html

I've been in touch with Mike about !6502Em over the last year or so - he is very keen to release this for all, along with the source code! :D

So I updated the source to allow !6502Em to run correctly on the RPi (under RO5.2) and I'm planning to spend a little more time on this over the Christmas break to do some further testing - I'll pull what I have together and check it all still runs on earlier machines (if anyone wants to volunteer to help test on early kit - Archimedes/RiscPC please PM me), then see if Mike's happy to release it at that point. :)


Hi Steve,

You need a tester, I can do that......A3010, the same one that started this post.

Ed......:-)

steve3000
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 am

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby steve3000 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:55 pm

RobC wrote:Great news Steve. I'm happy to help with the testing. Currently have an A3000, A540, R260 and RiscPC setup but I also have various other machines that I can dig out of the loft...

Perfect - I'll add you to my list, thanks Rob :)

KarateEd wrote:You need a tester, I can do that......A3010, the same one that started this post.

And thanks Ed, yes that'll be great! I'll add you to the list too :)

I'll PM the testers with details over the Christmas holiday, once I've pulled together a version which will load up OK on RISC OS 3.1 :)

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby jms2 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:33 pm

trixster wrote:Can you provide any details on how this was done? Are you saying someone got Exile to run on original Arc hardware under emulation?! I would love to get this working!


Very few I'm afraid. All I can remember was that it was in 1994-1995 I think, and that a patch was published on the comp.sys.acorn newsgroup for the EXILEL file which allowed the complete game to become runnable under !65Host. It definitely worked, I tried it. The person who did it supplied a text file explaining some of the things that he'd learned about Exile while making the patch - for example the way that sprites are stored as three single-colour layers, allowing each element to be plotted in a different colour if necessary.

That's about all I remember. Googling for it produces some references to it in old newsgroup posts, which proves I'm not delusional!

paulv wrote:It's unlikely you'll be able to run commercial games using the !65Host applications unless those games are written in an entirely OS legal fashion.


I don't think that's completely true - !65Host will run games which access screen memory directly, for example. Various other common hacks were also catered for. It's just that it doesn't cope with every conceivable scenario.

RobC wrote:I've got !6502Em on my main Arc and it works well

Seconded! :D !6502Em is very good, and it passes my test of a BBC Emulator, which is that it is able to run Revs!

steve3000 wrote:I've been in touch with Mike about !6502Em over the last year or so - he is very keen to release this for all, along with the source code! :D

So I updated the source to allow !6502Em to run correctly on the RPi

=D>
Nice one!
Happy to test out your updated version on an A3000, and on RiscOS4 on a RiscPC.

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby jms2 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:13 pm

Trawling through old csa.games posts, it seems the patch for Exile was released by someone called Dan in September 1995. It caused some controversy at the time regarding copyright (I think he must have posted the original version of Exile as well as the patch), so the post was taken down.

User avatar
trixster
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:45 am
Location: York

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby trixster » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:02 pm

Thanks for looking. It's a shame the patch might be lost forever unless the author can be found.

Getting exile running properly on an a3000/a3010/a3020 would be amazing.
Last edited by trixster on Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + RPi2 CoPro + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby jms2 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:00 pm

If it was 1995, I would have had my RiscPC by then. My recollection was that the patched 65Host ran very nicely on the RiscPC. However I'm not sure you'd get the same performance on an A3000.

In the event, though, 6502Em was released very soon afterwards. This runs an unpatched version of Exile perfectly, and because it is faster than 65Host would probably be playable on an A3000. This all made the patched version irrelevant. :D You definitely need to look out for 6502Em being released as freeware.

As for the 65host patched version, it is only interesting as a historical quirk. I will look through my floppy discs, you never know, it might be lurking somewhere...

User avatar
trixster
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:45 am
Location: York

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby trixster » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:03 pm

Cool, thanks for taking the time to look.

Beebit will run both Exile and Elite on an a3020 but it's so slow as to be unplayable, so 6502Em being quicker would be excellent.
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + RPi2 CoPro + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby jms2 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:05 pm

Yes, I'm pretty confident it is much faster than Beebit. It also emulates the Electron and Master.

User avatar
jms2
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:38 am
Location: Derby, UK

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby jms2 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:42 pm

Had a good look around my RiscPCs hard disc, and on some old floppies, but the hacked version of Exile is nowhere to be found. I must have deleted it when I got 6502Em. :(

Sadly, it seems this heroic achievement is lost.

Footie
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:13 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby Footie » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:29 am

At the bottom of the BeebIt webpage:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mjfoot/bbc.htm
there are a number of RISC OS utilities for manipulating SSD images and files. ArcDFS or BBCFiles can take a SSD and extract the files from it so you can use them on 65Host, 65Tube or 6502Em.

BeebIt does run too slowly on anything less than a RiscPC, however there are options to turn off to help speed it up. Changing screen update, Frame rate, CPU speed and turning off sound and cursor may help.

Michael.

User avatar
trixster
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:45 am
Location: York

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby trixster » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:49 pm

Any update on a 6502Em release Steve?
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + RPi2 CoPro + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO

steve3000
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:43 am

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby steve3000 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:01 pm

trixster wrote:Any update on a 6502Em release Steve?

Unfortunately for this project, a baby turned up and my free time disappeared. Just about getting sensible levels of sleep again now and even the occasional free evening...so I've recently started programming again, and although 6502 related, it is a slightly different project at the moment (more on that in the next couple of weeks :)).

User avatar
trixster
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:45 am
Location: York

Re: !65Host & !65Tube

Postby trixster » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:05 pm

Anything to report this month Steve? :o :!: :D
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + RPi2 CoPro + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO


Return to “software”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest