uef2wav.py

discussion of beeb/electron applications, languages, utils and educational s/w
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vanekp
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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:33 pm

am using an android phone.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:40 pm

I've no doubt it loads on an issue 7. I've had some really tatty-sounding tapes load on those.

I'm still getting nothing for the 3 today. And I know it isn't the machine suddenly deaf. This is really peculiar. I'm not moaning of course, just surprised.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:44 pm

Which games are you having a problem with? maybe I can give them a go to see.
b.t.w. I was looking yesterday in the service manual to see if I could find anything on upgrading a issue 3 to make the tape work :-

5.3.2 Changes from issue 3 to issue 4.
2. A 22k resistor (R174) was introduced from pin 20 of IC7, the serial
processor, to 0 volts to ensure that if IC74 was absent that the CTSI
line was held low.
5. The position of D13 was changed to put it in parallel with the relay
coil rather than across the collector and emitter of the transistor (
Q3).
16. At some stage between issues 3 and 4, C34, the cassette output
coupling capacitor was increased from 47nF to 220nF.

5.3.3 Changes from issue 4 to issue 7.
(Issues 5 and 6 never went into production).
2. R75 went to its final value of 82k. (The reason for the change in
value of R75 was to control the data carrier detect delay time to avoid
loosing the first bit of the first byte of the first block when
recording data.)

* The most common reason for the cassette system becoming inoperative
is a damaged LM324. Another problem is with the clock input to the
serial processor and it is worth checking that this is the correct
frequency (ie 1.23 MHz = 812 ns periodic time). Another problem which
sometimes occurs is that the value of R75 needs to be changed. The
optimum value is different for different issues of the serial processor
ULA because of the variation in impedence of pin 15 to earth. This
affects the timing between receiving a high tone lead-in and asserting
the data-carrier detect on the ACIA. For ICs numbered 2C199E and
2C199E-3, R75 should be 100x or 56k as required for consistent loading
of data. For 2C199E-7, R75 should be 82k.

Peter.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:57 pm

I don't remember. Very late before bed the other night I had a random pick of five, to see if they loaded and all was fine. Dotty was all I kept.

Tonight I may get

ZOOM 00
Block?

ZANY 00
Block?

ZONE 00
Data?


...but that doesn't explain how yesterday's ones worked and how the WAV I kept still works. You had it already!
Last edited by Commie_User on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:58 pm

Commie_User wrote:I've no doubt it loads on an issue 7. I've had some really tatty-sounding tapes load on those.

I'm still getting nothing for the 3 today. And I know it isn't the machine suddenly deaf. This is really peculiar. I'm not moaning of course, just surprised.


Gahh. I just did an initial commit to Github so tracking this in the future will be easier. Sounds like putting a 'reference WAV' in there is a good idea too.

One thought - I have no experience with issue 3, but you might want to try to increase the baud slightly with &BAUD=1270 at the end of the URL. My machines seem more sensitive to this being too slow. You could also try a bit slower.

Can you post your good WAV here and I'll take a look.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:03 pm

I've zipped it and tested the re-unzipped WAV and this is definitely running.

Playing with the baud doesn't work either. Something mucked up on its own, I think.
Attachments
https---www.zip
(137.96 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:17 pm

Commie_User wrote:I've zipped it and tested the re-unzipped WAV and this is definitely running.

Playing with the baud doesn't work either. Something mucked up on its own, I think.


Carrier tones are significantly shorter now, so I have broken something... will update it...

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:53 pm

I see the interblock gap has halved
02-11 interblock gap 0.247
01-11 interblock gap 0.491
only the 3DDotty on STH is different than the one Commie uploaded.
Peter.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:58 pm

vanekp wrote:I see the interblock gap has halved
02-11 interblock gap 0.247
01-11 interblock gap 0.491
only the 3DDotty on STH is different than the one Commie uploaded.
Peter.


Yep he used the acorn electron version! (Which runs on BBC B).

SuperiorReRelease/3DDotty-PIASRR_E.zip

I think issue 3 likes to see 2x carrier tones. I will stick in a parameter.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:07 pm

I tried both BBC and Electron programs today. I do like the way the BBC can play both.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:31 pm

Commie_User wrote:I tried both BBC and Electron programs today. I do like the way the BBC can play both.


Try this https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/8bitkick/PlayUEF/PlayUEF.html?FILE=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stairwaytohell.com%2Felectron%2Fuefarchive%2FSuperiorReRelease%2F3DDotty-PIASRR_E.zip&CARRIER=2

I have a hunch BBC Micro Issue 3 is happier with longer carrier tones, so I added a parameter.

Stick &CARRIER=2 at the end of any url for the same feature.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:49 pm

OK, now that loads again.

Your little appendage works. Thanks again.

Funny that they all worked before I caused you to ruin it! I have had my Frank Spencer moments. :D

Though I tried sticking &CARRIER=2 at the end when using the converter tool you uploaded and that returns nothing. Just to note. Never mind, I'm grateful playing with the huge pile you kindly provided. =D>

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:30 pm

Commie_User wrote:OK, now that loads again.

Though I tried sticking &CARRIER=2 at the end when using the converter tool you uploaded and that returns nothing. Just to note. Never mind, I'm grateful playing with the huge pile you kindly provided. =D>


Great!

Thanks for all the feedback it's improved a lot because of it. =D>

If you navigate to http://www.8bitkick.cc/playuef---bbc-micro.html and select any game link on the page, then add &CARRIER=2 at the end, it should work. (Make sure you have cleared your web browser cache otherwise you'll be picking up the old version potentially.)

The URLs will be pretty long, for example https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/8bitkick/PlayUEF/PlayUEF.html?FILE=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.stairwaytohell.com%2Fbbc%2Farchive%2Ftapeimages%2FSuperior%2FAirlift_B.zip&CARRIER=2

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:33 pm

Been testing a few games to see how they go have to admit was looking for the ones that I know have some sort of copy protection in them to test it all the ones that failed where due to unsupported chunk 0x0104, so it seems to handle all the other things fine, here is the list :-

Ultimate/KnightLore_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
Imagine/Wizadore_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
Imagine/YieArKungFu_B.zip - ok
Aardvark/Zalaga-v2.2_RUN_B.zip - ok
SoftwareInvasion/3DGrandPrix_B.hq.zip - ok
Ultimate/Alien8_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
ComputerConcepts/AndroidAttack_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 2685
USGold/BeachHead_B.zip - ok
Superior/Bonecruncher_B.hq.zip - game loads but not extra levels 0x0104 chunks
Superior/Bonecruncher-PIASRR_B.zip - ok
Micropower/CastleQuest_B.hq.zip - ok
Superior/Citadel_B.hq.zip - ok
Superior/CrazeeRider_B.zip - ok
Durell/CombatLynx_RUN_B.zip - ok
Acornsoft/Elite-v1.0_B.zip - ok
Firebird/FatManSam_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 6210
Ultimate/AticAtac_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
SoftwareInvasion/BlitzKrieg-colour_B.hq.zip - ok
Firebird/Estra_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 10315
Aardvark/Joust_RUN_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 1485
Audiogenic/Psycastria_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 4994
Acornsoft/Revs_B.hq.zip - ok
GoDax/Skirmish_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 1488
Amcom/SpaceHi-way_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 6848
SoftwareInvasion/StairwayToHell_B.hq.zip - ok
BubbleBus/Starquake_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 17378

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:42 pm

vanekp wrote:Been testing a few games to see how they go have to admit was looking for the ones that I know have some sort of copy protection in them to test it all the ones that failed where due to unsupported chunk 0x0104, so it seems to handle all the other things fine, here is the list :-

Ultimate/KnightLore_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
Imagine/Wizadore_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
Imagine/YieArKungFu_B.zip - ok
Aardvark/Zalaga-v2.2_RUN_B.zip - ok
SoftwareInvasion/3DGrandPrix_B.hq.zip - ok
Ultimate/Alien8_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
ComputerConcepts/AndroidAttack_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 2685
USGold/BeachHead_B.zip - ok
Superior/Bonecruncher_B.hq.zip - game loads but not extra levels 0x0104 chunks
Superior/Bonecruncher-PIASRR_B.zip - ok
Micropower/CastleQuest_B.hq.zip - ok
Superior/Citadel_B.hq.zip - ok
Superior/CrazeeRider_B.zip - ok
Durell/CombatLynx_RUN_B.zip - ok
Acornsoft/Elite-v1.0_B.zip - ok
Firebird/FatManSam_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 6210
Ultimate/AticAtac_RUN_B.hq.zip - ok
SoftwareInvasion/BlitzKrieg-colour_B.hq.zip - ok
Firebird/Estra_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 10315
Aardvark/Joust_RUN_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 1485
Audiogenic/Psycastria_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 4994
Acornsoft/Revs_B.hq.zip - ok
GoDax/Skirmish_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 1488
Amcom/SpaceHi-way_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 6848
SoftwareInvasion/StairwayToHell_B.hq.zip - ok
BubbleBus/Starquake_B.hq.zip - XXX 0x0104 defined tape format data block at byte 17378


Thanks vanekp for all your help with this. 0x0104 is next on the todo list. I've done a beta release and also put code on GitHub http://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13992#p184883. I will get on this as soon as I can - it might be a week or so as I have house moving stuff to do!!

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:50 pm

no problem as and when you have time :wink: , just though I would report back after doing some testing with playuef.
Peter.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:55 pm

vanekp wrote:no problem as and when you have time :wink: , just though I would report back after doing some testing with playuef.
Peter.


Definitely! Also, it works for me fine in IE now... but still not tested on android. How is that for you now?

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:11 pm

in IE i still get the message invalid uef, do I need something extra or turn something on in IE to get it to work as you say it works for you.
on my Android phone I still cant click the play button, it just stays gray, only on the tape to download it 1st. am using the samsung browser maybe i should try a different one :wink:

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:13 pm

vanekp wrote:in IE i still get the message invalid uef, do I need something extra or turn something on in IE to get it to work as you say it works for you.
on my Android phone I still cant click the play button, it just stays gray, only on the tape to download it 1st. am using the samsung browser maybe i should try a different one :wink:


the android issue is annoying as it works on chrome :( I will fix when I can

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:14 pm

using the same IE as I don't like windows 10 edge, but normally use firefox and in there it works fine.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:20 pm

8bitkick wrote:
vanekp wrote:in IE i still get the message invalid uef, do I need something extra or turn something on in IE to get it to work as you say it works for you.
on my Android phone I still cant click the play button, it just stays gray, only on the tape to download it 1st. am using the samsung browser maybe i should try a different one :wink:


the android issue is annoying as it works on chrome :( I will fix when I can


Just put firefox on my android and there it works fine just does not work in the default Samsung browser.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:29 pm

vanekp wrote:
8bitkick wrote:
vanekp wrote:in IE i still get the message invalid uef, do I need something extra or turn something on in IE to get it to work as you say it works for you.
on my Android phone I still cant click the play button, it just stays gray, only on the tape to download it 1st. am using the samsung browser maybe i should try a different one :wink:


the android issue is annoying as it works on chrome :( I will fix when I can


Just put firefox on my android and there it works fine just does not work in the default Samsung browser.


=D>

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:37 pm

Lastly, would you mind putting that &CARRIER=2 note on the tape image link pages, for easy reminding?

I'm having a great time. Mostly I just enjoy watching things load. And none have failed.

Sterling work, once again.

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:43 pm

Commie_User wrote:Lastly, would you mind putting that &CARRIER=2 note on the tape image link pages, for easy reminding?

I'm having a great time. Mostly I just enjoy watching things load. And none have failed.

Sterling work, once again.


Great! At some point I will have a nice interface to select titles and a simple tick box so you can say 'BBC issue 3' and it will just use the right settings. The current state is more for testing. Im moving boxes out of the house right now so might be a week or so!

Thanks again for all the testing and feedback. I gave you guys a shout out in the github documentation - which also lists the CARRIER parameter https://github.com/8bitkick/PlayUEF/blob/master/README.md

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:58 pm

Was thinking the same about adding check boxes for the option's as its a pain adding them to the end of the url :wink:

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby Commie_User » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:07 pm

That will be nice. Though for myself, I already have what I asked for. :)

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:35 pm

I am sure it will come with time, and it works very well only one or two games I have had an issue with that don't use 0x0140 chunk.
Was also thinking it would be hand to have markers on the time line for the start of each file so that if you need to rewind you know where it starts.
Another crazy...or not so crazy idea is someway to use the cassette relay to start and stop playback of PlayUEF auotomaticaly :wink:

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:59 pm

vanekp wrote:I am sure it will come with time, and it works very well only one or two games I have had an issue with that don't use 0x0140 chunk.
Was also thinking it would be hand to have markers on the time line for the start of each file so that if you need to rewind you know where it starts.
Another crazy...or not so crazy idea is someway to use the cassette relay to start and stop playback of PlayUEF auotomaticaly :wink:


Cassette relay is tricky without extra components (in which case better just buying a modern Flash storage based add on). Best 'minimal' idea I have so far is having the smartphone listen for the click of relay. (Possibly connecting motor control line of acorn to laptop mic in line??) not checked voltages involved but this is possibly a bad idea...

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby vanekp » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:01 pm

The motor control is just a contact/switch from the relay there is no physical connection to the BBC circuit so completely isolated, have to give it some though :)

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Re: uef2wav.py

Postby 8bitkick » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:28 pm

vanekp wrote:The motor control is just a contact/switch from the relay there is no physical connection to the BBC circuit so completely isolated, have to give it some though :)


Come to think of it, the best way might be to scan block data in browser for a "MOTOR OFF" command... could get annoying with false positives though


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