Which A3010 Monitor?

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
Ste
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Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby Ste » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:44 pm

Hey, does anyone know what kind of monitor I would need for an A3010? Atm I'm working with an old telly, and I can also hook it up to a flat panel monitor as long as I stay in the desktop environment, but if I try to run a game the signal goes out of range. Preferably I'd want to get a flat screen of some kind to save on desk space, but I don't know what specs to look for.

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flaxcottage
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby flaxcottage » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:59 pm

You are going to need the LCDGAMES module. This allows mode 12 games to display letter box style.

It is OK but for a real gaming experience a CRT monitor can't be beaten. I use an AKF30.
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer

Ste
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby Ste » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:10 am

Thanks flaxcottage, I'll check out the module. I'll see how it handles things and then maybe consider getting a CRT after.

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danielj
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby danielj » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:44 am

CRT = excellent, but obviously old and bulky. LCDGameModes works for many things but sometimes doesn't and sometimes gives a slightly odd aspect ratio. A BenQ BL702A is actually a modern LCD multiscan monitor and should deal with all the A3010 resolutions. All this depends on funds, desk space and desire for authenticity :D

d.

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paulv
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby paulv » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:11 am

Benq monitors are 5:4 ratio but most can display TV modes as well as VGA modes if you tell RISC OS 3 that you're using a multisync monitor. I have a Benq 912 hooked up to my A3000 with a VIDC Enhancer to bring the display capabilities up to those of the A3010.

Paul

Ste
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby Ste » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:54 pm

danielj wrote:A BenQ BL702A is actually a modern LCD multiscan monitor and should deal with all the A3010 resolutions.


paulv wrote:I have a Benq 912 hooked up to my A3000 with a VIDC Enhancer to bring the display capabilities up to those of the A3010.


Ah yeah, that's the kind of thing I was looking for actually. I've found a BL702A and a BL912 both for a similar price. Is there any big difference between the two or will they both do the job? Also, they're both 19". Is there a 20" option? As I couldn't find any.

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danielj
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby danielj » Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:10 pm

I think the 702 is 17" actually...

d.

Ste
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby Ste » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:56 pm

Oh wait, yeah, oops! I guess that narrows it down at least.

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danielj
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby danielj » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:56 pm

Looking at the BenQ website, I think the 19" is the largest multisync they do.

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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby Ste » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:27 am

So does the monitor simply have to be multisync to work? For instance, would this work:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEC-MultiSync-LCD2190UXP-21-LCD-Monitor-1600-x-1200-/322566302668?hash=item4b1a732bcc:g:AbsAAOSwd~RZTsKO

I mean, I'm fine with the BenQ one but it costs almost twice as much.

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danielj
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby danielj » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:57 am

Multisync is, I think, an NEC trademark. Their old CRTs would synchronise to a low enough frequency, the LCDs don't unfortunately. The key thing you're looking for is this line in the specs:

Code: Select all

Synchronization Range - Vertical   50 - 85 kHz
Synchronization Range - Horizontal   31.5 - 91.1 kHz


That horizontal sync range has to go down to 15kHz to work with a TV-type signal.

The BenQs are the only modern monitors that seem to do it AFAIK. And that's why you're paying a bit of a premium. There are actually other monitors sold that sync down to this range, but they're sold for industrial applications (to replace old CRTs) and consequently are *very* expensive... e.g.:
http://www.microvitec.co.uk/pdf-files/MV19LCDL-DT.pdf - I've seen prices of around $850 on chinese websites for that... I'm guessing it'd end up about the same in £s...

d.

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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby steve3000 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:19 am

An alternative to the BenQ is to use an LCD TV which accepts SCART input.

I wanted a wide-screen LCD monitor which doubles up as a TV and could accept 1920x1080 VGA signal via 15-pin VGA socket from my laptop and hdmi for my Raspberry Pi.

I couldn't find any brand new TV monitors which have 15 pin VGA input and SCART, but these were common until a few years ago, so I bought a Samsung P2270 HD from eBay - and with a SCART lead from my BBC B and Archimedes (when I'm not using LCDgamemodes ;)), this is perfect for games :)

I posted a thread when I was searching, here: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10560&p=139365&hilit=P2270#p128217

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danielj
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby danielj » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:48 am

I've got a syncmaster that can do the same. The things that's a bit disappointing is that I've never seen a TV that'll take 15kHz through the VGA port :(

d.

Ste
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby Ste » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:51 pm

So what I'm taking away from all of this is 'get the BenQ one!' lol.

Actually this might solve my Amiga 600 problem as well! The flicker fixer had to be removed as it was messing up the joystick port, so I've been reduced to using composite video. But it seems there's a VGA adapter which can be used with these 15khz monitors. Brilliant! Anyway, thanks for the advice guys.

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simonm
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby simonm » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Another upvote for the BenQ 912 from here. I run my A3010 on this and t's perfect for it. 19" is grand.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BenQ-BL912-inc ... 00DZG2IWE/
You'll see the reviews are giving it a lot of love from the Acorn camp! :lol:

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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby JonC » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:42 pm

Just baught one! :lol:
Jon
Image

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flaxcottage
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby flaxcottage » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:15 am

I have an old Toshiba 23" wide screen TV, model 17MB16-P2 which seems to work OK with my A4000 as is. I set it up today just to check it out.

Without using any modules such as LCDGamesMode it can resolve MODE0 through to MODE31, which is my working desktop resolution. :D The basic Archimedes MODEs 0 to 15 are displayed in a smaller letter box format but, since the TV is a wide screen version, this actually looks OK. The desktop resolves at a 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the TV's 16:9 ratio.

Not that I am recommending anyone goes out to see if they can buy one (these are really obsolete now and will be as scarce as hen's teeth) rather this is an indication that some older LCD TVs can resolve modes 0-15 without modification.
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer

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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby steve3000 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:29 pm

flaxcottage wrote:I have an old Toshiba 23" wide screen TV, model 17MB16-P2 which seems to work OK with my A4000 as is. I set it up today just to check it out.

Without using any modules such as LCDGamesMode it can resolve MODE0 through to MODE31, which is my working desktop resolution. :D The basic Archimedes MODEs 0 to 15 are displayed in a smaller letter box format but, since the TV is a wide screen version, this actually looks OK. The desktop resolves at a 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the TV's 16:9 ratio.

Not that I am recommending anyone goes out to see if they can buy one (these are really obsolete now and will be as scarce as hen's teeth) rather this is an indication that some older LCD TVs can resolve modes 0-15 without modification.

I think many older lcd tvs can manage VGA modes (and the VGA letterbox versions of modes 0-15) - my Samsung can do this if RISC OS is configured correctly. The A4000 you're running will either have monitortype set to 4 or 'auto' - and RISC OS then selects the vga versions of the low resolution screen modes 0-15. However these run at 70hz and in letterbox format which plays havoc with some older games, especially those which adjust the screensize. Lcdgamemodes attempts to fix the aspect ratio (making the letterbox modes more square) and allows some games which patch the vidc directly (to adjust the screensize), to work.

The challenge which Daniel refers to is running modes 0-15 in their original low res 15kHz (horizontal) / 50Hz (frame rate) configuration through the vga port.

You can test this by configuring your A4000 to monitortype 1 (multisync) and then try selecting mode 0-15. With monitortype 1, the correct low resolution settings are used for these modes and I suspect you'll find these no longer work on your TV, through the vga port, whereas the higher refresh VGA /SVGA modes such as mode 27 and 31 will still display fine.

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flaxcottage
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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby flaxcottage » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:24 am

Yep. It is just as you say. MODE 12 stops working when monitor type is configured to 1. :(
- John

Currently running Level 4 Econet with BBC B, BBC B+ 128K, Master 128K, 4Mb A3000, 4Mb A3020, 4Mb A4000, 4Mb A5000 dual FDD; UK101; HP41CX setup; Psion 3a, 3mx and 5mx; Z88; TI-58c, TI-59 and printer

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Re: Which A3010 Monitor?

Postby steve3000 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:06 pm

flaxcottage wrote:Yep. It is just as you say. MODE 12 stops working when monitor type is configured to 1. :(

That is the problem - if you have SCART connection you'll find that the 15khz modes (0-15) will work ok through this, but then you'll also find the high resolution modes 27 / 31 etc. don't work through SCART... :(


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