Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
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trixster
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby trixster » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:31 pm

Yes, I'm getting in line for an A3000 one.
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + Pi0 + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO | MD

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby Fwapp » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:46 am

Also very interested in an A3000 version of this :)
Acorn Atom (iss.4[WIP]) AtoMMC V2.0, BBC B (iss.7) Sir Morris SD Card and MMFS 1.27, Acorn Electron (iss.4), A3000

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:08 am

Noted . . . However, patience . . . Once the new workshop is complete (delayed due to holidays and other delayed building work) and Mrs H realises that just because she's now retired we don't actually have to spend every second of every day in each others company :roll: things will start to move forward . . . I'm loosing count of just how many projects I've got on the go, 'almost' as bad as Richard Toohey :lol: But, we'll get there in the end. And, of course, I've got all sorts of assistance, from various members, going on in the background . . . which is VERY much appreciated and vital.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:31 am

Progress:
Schematic-IdeAIN V6C.JPG
3D-IdeAIN V6C.JPG


Dave H :D

p.s. I'll get a high-res schematic posted later today.
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:55 am

And here are the CPLD equations I've been given << Note: although I've used the net names listed, in these files, I have yet to verify them against the PCB I have. I also intend to remove the PLDs from the board and try to read them, as part of the verification process.

IdeAIn V6C PLD Equations.zip
(1.8 KiB) Downloaded 35 times


Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby dp11 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:31 am

I don't know if this helps but here is a photo of my board. It uses hct parts to drive the bus.

[img][attachment=0]14729021227191141526021.jpg[/img]
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14729021227191141526021.jpg

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:16 pm

dp11 wrote:I don't know if this helps but here is a photo of my board.
Ah! Thanks . . . I haven't seen a V6B board before - My two are V6C. The difference is that the V6C uses a AN29F010 Flash memory. This allows any updates to be carried out by the user. Much easier than having to update via your EPROM programmer!

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:22 pm

Here's where I am with the schematic - Net names in Green have been checked with the meter. Almost all the components are now on-board - exceptions are decoupling and maybe the odd resistor.

IdeAIn V6C 03-09-16 - Schematic.PDF.zip
(155.64 KiB) Downloaded 42 times


Dave H :D

p.s. Any feedback is welcome . . .
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby CJE-4D » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:50 am

danielj wrote:
daveejhitchins wrote:
I have no idea what changes, if any, that APDL made to the IDE system. I gave Dave Holden a copy of the IDE source code, and permission to make changes to that source code for support purposes, and to apply his own branding for sales purposes. However, I did not give or sell him any rights in the copyright to the original designs.

There's a similar quote regarding Micro Digital.


Brilliant - have you let Chris Evans know? :D


Yes, Dave and I have been talking about the Baildon IDE interfaces since shortly after the unfortunate death of Dave Holden.
I'm really glad that a way is being been found to make more IDE interfaces.

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby JonC » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:02 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:Here's where I am with the schematic - Net names in Green have been checked with the meter. Almost all the components are now on-board - exceptions are decoupling and maybe the odd resistor.

IdeAIn V6C 03-09-16 - Schematic.PDF.zip

Dave H :D

p.s. Any feedback is welcome . . .


I'm far from being an export on these things, but...
IIRC (it's a looong time ago!), my Ian Copestake Software Interface used a 3 way activity/power LED as the fascia on the A310 only has one LED slot. Will you be doing something similar here?
Also on the A310, you could plug the ICS board straight into the backplane connector socket (since most A310's didn't come with one), a spade connector was added on the board for 5v supply (IIRC). This would be a nice feature to have as backplanes for A310's are like rocking horse poo. :lol:
Jon
Image

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:49 pm

JonC wrote:I'm far from being an export on these things, but...
IIRC (it's a looong time ago!), my Ian Copestake Software Interface used a 3 way activity/power LED as the fascia on the A310 only has one LED slot. Will you be doing something similar here?
I'd already thought about that. The original ICS IdeA Interface V5x had a dual LED. This indicated power and drive activity. The Issue V6C, that I'm looking at, has provision for a single activity LED, however, the connector is a no-fit.

I still have lots of the dual LEDs, from the Issue V5x, so I plan to incorporate activity for each fitted drive - there are two 40 pin IDE sockets fitted.
JonC wrote:Also on the A310, you could plug the ICS board straight into the backplane connector socket (since most A310's didn't come with one), a spade connector was added on the board for 5v supply (IIRC). This would be a nice feature to have as backplanes for A310's are like rocking horse poo. :lol:
Hmmm! I was going to omit this feature! The V6C has the holes fitted for the parts, but has them shorted out. I'll reconsider this, in light of what you've said.

I've got a little further with the Reverse Engineering . . . and found that the PLD files I have don't seem to match the board layout :? I've still to look at some other files I have, so all may not be lost. I may, on the other hand, have to rely on the fitted PLDs not being LOCKED :shock:

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby steve3000 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:55 pm

Great work Dave!

This is exactly what's needed for the retro-Archimedes scene :D
daveejhitchins wrote:
JonC wrote:Also on the A310, you could plug the ICS board straight into the backplane connector socket (since most A310's didn't come with one), a spade connector was added on the board for 5v supply (IIRC). This would be a nice feature to have as backplanes for A310's are like rocking horse poo. :lol:
Hmmm! I was going to omit this feature! The V6C has the holes fitted for the parts, but has them shorted out. I'll reconsider this, in light of what you've said.

Please do add this feature if possible, as Jon said it's near impossible to find A310/305 backplanes - and these could then become the bottleneck for IDE connectivity.

One question do the later V6 cards offer any improved speed using the available DMA on the RiscPC podule slots? I'm guessing not from the schematic above because the central row of the podule connector is not populated - but had you considered this?

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:53 am

steve3000 wrote:One question do the later V6 cards offer any improved speed using the available DMA on the RiscPC podule slots? I'm guessing not from the schematic above because the central row of the podule connector is not populated - but had you considered this?
I have considered this . . . But not for this version. I would like to Beg, Borrow or Steal :roll: a Blitz IDE interface, just to reverse engineer it, you understand :mrgreen: The Blitz (unsure of it full pedigree!) was sold by APDL. Just before Dave Holden passed away, I was in contact with him on just this subject, as he'd commented (can't remember where now - possible his web site!) that he was running very short of these boards. It maybe that our friend Aaron has one or more in his collection, however, he doesn't believe I exist :evil: , so no luck there.

Why not make the V6C DMA compatible? Software! I haven't got hold of any source code, as yet. But even with the source code this would be a mammoth job!

Why not just concentrate on the Blitz? It doesn't work on all machines, IIRC, so the software would require some work to e.g. not use DMA on some machines (if that's the issue) or to work on all machines (if it's possible) - and the chances of obtaining the source code for this . . . well I'll leave you to guess at that . . .

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:02 pm

Update . . .

I believe this to be the full schematic for the Baildon Electronics ARCIN V6C:
Schematic- BE ARCIN V6C.JPG
3D-BE ARCIN V6C.JPG
Note: No capacitors placed on this view.

Here is a pdf of the schematic. If anyone spots any issues, please advise . . .

IdeAIn V6C 09-09-16 - Schematic.PDF.zip
(162.07 KiB) Downloaded 35 times

I'll be changing things, where I can, to make assembly easier and hopefully reducing the cost.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby IanS » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:16 pm

D1 & D2 the wrong way round?

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby hubersn » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:21 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:Why not make the V6C DMA compatible? Software! I haven't got hold of any source code, as yet. But even with the source code this would be a mammoth job!


I may be misremembering, but I am fairly sure that the Arcin interfaces were advertised as using DMA von the Risc PC if they are connected to a DMA-enabled podule slot.

So the challenge would be to extend the Arcin to full 32bit DEBI capability. But maybe it would be a Blitz then anyway?

Why not just concentrate on the Blitz? It doesn't work on all machines, IIRC, so the software would require some work to e.g. not use DMA on some machines (if that's the issue) or to work on all machines (if it's possible) - and the chances of obtaining the source code for this . . . well I'll leave you to guess at that . . .


I may be again misremembering, but I am fairly sure that the Blitz worked in all machines (as long as they ran at least RISC OS 3.1). However, its compatibility with various devices was not as good as the Arcin, especially with ATAPI devices like ZIP and CD writers. I know I had conversations with David Holden about the CD writer compatibility problem, and he said that he always adviced customers to put their harddiscs onto the Blitz and the CD writers to the internal IDE.

Talking of the software: John Kortink did a replacement software for the old ICS ideA podule named "ZIDEFS", see http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm. Maybe you could ask him for the sources.

Have fun
hubersn

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:33 am

IanS wrote:D1 & D2 the wrong way round?
Oooops! Thanks Ian. . . I'll get that sorted.

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:41 am

hubersn wrote:I may be misremembering, but I am fairly sure that the Arcin interfaces were advertised as using DMA von the Risc PC if they are connected to a DMA-enabled podule slot.
Unfortunately not - no DMA on these cards. :(
hubersn wrote:I may be again misremembering, but I am fairly sure that the Blitz worked in all machines (as long as they ran at least RISC OS 3.1). However, its compatibility with various devices was not as good as the Arcin, especially with ATAPI devices like ZIP and CD writers. I know I had conversations with David Holden about the CD writer compatibility problem, and he said that he always advised customers to put their harddiscs onto the Blitz and the CD writers to the internal IDE.
You could be right. I've only ever seen images of the Blitz board. Maybe someone out there, who has one can comment on this?
hubersn wrote:Talking of the software: John Kortink did a replacement software for the old ICS ideA podule named "ZIDEFS", see http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm. Maybe you could ask him for the sources.
I'll drop John a line and let him know what I'm up to.

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby broadcaststorm » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:37 pm

There's one on ebay at the minute (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APDL-ARCIN-V6 ... SwgmJX1D7N).
If we were to croud-fund purchase this card for you, would that help efforts?
10 of us chuck in £8.40 each... could work?

Dan

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby ianSmalls » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:46 pm

Looks like ive just found another version of the card...

V6 - without the B or C
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20160911_232631-001.jpg
20160911_232527-001.jpg

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:49 am

broadcaststorm wrote:There's one on ebay at the minute (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APDL-ARCIN-V6 ... SwgmJX1D7N).
If we were to croud-fund purchase this card for you, would that help efforts?
10 of us chuck in £8.40 each... could work?

Dan
Well, thanks for the offer, however, I have two of the boards: one with fried PLDs and one working, so hoping the PLDs aren't locked :shock: If they are then I'd presume that all boards had their PLDs locked (but could work with the equations I have and, hopefully work everthing out!). If they're not locked - job done :D

Thanks - Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:53 am

ianSmalls wrote:Looks like ive just found another version of the card...

V6 - without the B or C
This looks like a very similar layout to the V6B - The obvious difference being the missing LED drive in the top right hand corner.

Thanks for these photos, though.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:14 am

I wrote:
hubersn wrote:Talking of the software: John Kortink did a replacement software for the old ICS ideA podule named "ZIDEFS", see http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm. Maybe you could ask him for the sources.
I'll drop John a line and let him know what I'm up to.

Dave H :D
I've made contact with John, he's quite willing to modify his code to work with the V6C card, if it doesn't already work - all depends where the ROM and address latch sits in the memory map. So at least we'll have one working (Z)IDEFS that is supported, if I don't get a copy of the original source code.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:40 pm

Does anyone know of a source of low cost surface mount PLCC20 sockets? I've found some at 20p each (200), but had hoped to pay less!

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby trixster » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:55 pm

Any update? I'm itching for an A3000 card!
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + Pi0 + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO | MD

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:21 am

trixster wrote:Any update? I'm itching for an A3000 card!
Sorry, nothing as yet . . . And, to make it worse, this one comes after the short Podule version!

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby trixster » Thu May 04, 2017 9:55 pm

Anything new to report?
A3020 | A3000 | BBC B + 128K RAM/ROM + 20K Shadow + Pi0 + VideoNuLA
BBC Master Turbo + DC | Atom | A1200 060 | A500 | Jaguar | A420/1
A4000/040 060 | Atari Falcon 060 | Saturn | PS1 | SNES | CPC6128 | C64 | 3DO | MD

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Thu May 04, 2017 10:00 pm

trixster wrote:Anything new to report?
Funny you should mention that - I'm planning to reverse engineer the PLDs, on the the working one I have, tomorrow. Fingers crossed [-o<

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Fri May 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Right . . . The bad news is: The 2 x 16V8s a protected :?

But, I have the schematics and some out-of-date equations so I'll have to do this the long way :shock:

I WILL NEED ASSISTANCE, please [-o<

I know the inputs and outputs - so it's a case of exercising the inputs and monitoring the outputs. Any ideas on the best way to do this will be gratefully received 'especially' the software!!

I'll publish the information I have, later today.

Dave H :(
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby danielj » Fri May 05, 2017 12:18 pm

You could jerry-rig them on to an arduino if you've got one? Pretty straight forward to exercise them with that? Otherwise how about the user-port to twiddle the inputs?

d.


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