Pandora / Panos Questions

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
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hoglet
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby hoglet » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:34 pm

Rob,

I've been running Panos very successfully now on the Matchbox LX9 32016 sans FPU without any issues (unless I try to use floating point in Fortran).

I just got an email from Udo (creator of the m32632 core) which I think explains why this is not quite the same as your 32016 with the FPU removed.

I'm sure Udo won't mind me quoting his email here:
Hi Guys,

I watch your discussion at stardot. It just came to my mind that there
is a difference between the modified M32632 and an NS32016 without FPU.

The M32632 without the FPU functionality still performs successfully
the MOVF and MOVL opcodes (move Floating Point). Eventually PanOS uses
these opcodes for Register saving and restoring. An NS32016 uses even
for a simple MOVF/MOVL the external FPU. If the FPU does not exist the
NS32016 will hang.

This could explain the different results seen: "cat works" at hoglet :wink:

Regards,
Udo

That makes complete sense to me now.

It also means the Matchbox LX9 32016 Co Pro is likely to be reasonably useful. The Panos 1.1 and 1.4 installs are now working perfectly for me. An it appears the C compiler works and produces runnable code (at least for Hello World). I'll try to get an updated Matchbox firmware out within the next few days.

Dave

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fordp
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby fordp » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:36 pm

Great work Dave (and Udo of course).

I always thought a 32016 CoPro without the FPU would be useful. I have spent years using ARM's without an FPU and they did a lot of real work. As we can trap FPU instructions we could do a software implementation and still have the programs with Floating Point working a lot slower of course.

The great thing is that Udo has released the HDL to the world, and this makes a future fully open source CoPro not very hard for people like Hoglet.

I am also making pretty good progress on the Raspberry Pi Softcore version and I am pretty certain that will be working in the coming days.

My real CoPro may be dead but I will be running Panos soon :D
FordP (Simon Ellwood)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so!

RobC
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby RobC » Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:45 am

This is excellent news - well done Dave!

I look forward to the updated firmware - it'll be great to have all of the co-pros available in a single box :D

Thanks for all your hard work on this and to Udo too.

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danielj
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby danielj » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:41 pm

I've finally managed to compile Adventure:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10785

Should run without FPU, but haven't tested!

d.

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fordp
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby fordp » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:18 pm

OK I would like to test Bas32f.

Can somebody point me to a mmb or ssd file with Bas32f on it please?

Is there anything special I should know?

The images on here http://mdfs.net/Software/Tube/32016/ are just plain zips how am I meant to get them back as a BBC micro disc image with all the correct attributes such as start address on them.

Sorry if all this stuff sounds silly but you do not know what you do not know!

Thanks in advance.
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hoglet
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby hoglet » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:25 pm

fordp wrote:OK I would like to test Bas32f.

Can somebody point me to a mmb or ssd file with Bas32f on it please?

It's on side 2 of the Panos 1.4 startup disk.

The full set of Panos 1.4 disks as .ssd files is here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10421&p=133413#p133413

The one you want is called Pan141b.ssd

Dave

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fordp
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby fordp » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:11 pm

hoglet wrote:
fordp wrote:OK I would like to test Bas32f.

Can somebody point me to a mmb or ssd file with Bas32f on it please?

It's on side 2 of the Panos 1.4 startup disk.

The full set of Panos 1.4 disks as .ssd files is here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10421&p=133413#p133413

The one you want is called Pan141b.ssd

Dave

Thanks Dave :D
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jgharston
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby jgharston » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:16 am

fordp wrote:The images on here http://mdfs.net/Software/Tube/32016/ are just plain zips how am I meant to get them back as a BBC micro disc image with all the correct attributes such as start address on them.

Unzip them with an unzip tool that understands Acorn file addresses, such as SparkPlug, SparkFS, InfoUnZip, SprowUnZip, BBCUnZip, SaintyUnZip.

Hmm. A good test of Panos would be to use the Pandora C compiler to compile InfoZip and InfoUnzip.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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fordp
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby fordp » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:07 pm

jgharston wrote:
fordp wrote:The images on here http://mdfs.net/Software/Tube/32016/ are just plain zips how am I meant to get them back as a BBC micro disc image with all the correct attributes such as start address on them.

Unzip them with an unzip tool that understands Acorn file addresses, such as SparkPlug, SparkFS, InfoUnZip, SprowUnZip, BBCUnZip, SaintyUnZip.

Hmm. A good test of Panos would be to use the Pandora C compiler to compile InfoZip and InfoUnzip.


Am I right in saying none of the above will work on a Windows/ Linux machine?
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danielj
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby danielj » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:39 pm

Chicken-and-egg-zone. What's your standard method of getting files onto things? And what do you need from that webpage? (and yes, with regard to those programmes to all intents and purposes)

d.

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jgharston
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby jgharston » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:50 pm

fordp wrote:
jgharston wrote:Unzip them with an unzip tool that understands Acorn file addresses, such as SparkPlug, SparkFS, InfoUnZip, SprowUnZip, BBCUnZip, SaintyUnZip.
...
Am I right in saying none of the above will work on a Windows/ Linux machine?

SprowUnzip and BBCUnzip will run on Windows (BBC BASIC for Windows or Brandy Basic) and Lunix (Brandy Basic), but do Windows or Linux understand Acorn load/exec addresses? To extract Acorn load/exec addresses you have to extract them to something that understands Acorn load/exec addresses, and SprowUnZip and BBCUnZip are optimised to run on platforms that understand Acorn load/exec addresses.

You could use your platform-X unzipper of choice and then use ZipToInf to extract the Acorn metadata and save them as .inf files. That then changes the problem to one of getting data+.inf file combinations onto your Acorn media.

The simplest option is still: get the actual ZIP archive onto the Acorn media, then run an Acorn-platform unzipper on the Acorn platform on the ZIP archive on the Acorn media.

The methods I use include:
* copy the ZIP archive from a Windows machine onto a DOS floppy, put DOS floppy into BBC Master floppy drive, *MOVE -dosfs- disk to -adfs- disk, unzip ZIP archive from ADFS disk to ADFS disk (or unzip directly from -dosfs- disk to -adfs- disk)
* copy the ZIP archive from a Windows machine onto a DOS floppy, put the DOS floppy into A5000 floppy drive, use unzipper to extract from ZIP file to temp directory, copy from temp directory to ADFS disk

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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BigEd
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby BigEd » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:01 pm

I think what would be nice is a portable command line utility which understands the extra attributes in an Acorn-extended zip file and can write to a disk image format. But someone would need to write that...

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fordp
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby fordp » Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:05 pm

I know Dave (Hoglet) uses a set of Python scripts to make disc images on a Linux machine.

I am using SD Cards for my Acorn media so there is no need for the Linux/ Windows machine to understand the Acorn Meta data, just the the programs doing the copying.

Maybe a more modern way of storing the Meta-data may be in the long file name these days ?

I will have a look at the python scripts when I get time and maybe they can be adapted to deal with these zip files :D
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hoglet
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby hoglet » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:33 pm

This probably a question for Jonathan (JGH).

Is there a known issue with Pandora 2.00 that means the current program is not preserved following a soft break?

I've tested a real 32016 Co Pro, and:
- with Pandora 1.00, following a soft break the current program (e.g. BAS32) is re-entered
- with Pandora 2.00, you always return to the Supervisor prompt

I did some debugging of this here
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirect/issues/49

It appears in Panos 2.00 when OSCLI executes BAS32 the current program address is for some reason not updated, and remains pointing at the supervisor prompt loop (F00DAE)

Dave

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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby RobC » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:52 pm

I've finally got around to installing the 32016 software from the disk images that Boydie kindly uploaded a while back.

The good news is that the BCPL compiler, Reduce, GCAL and DVI2PS all seem to be working.

I also installed the Modula-2 compiler and that seems to work but I ran into a problem when I tried to get it to compile the source on the TEX disk. The TEX source is a mixture of Modula-2 and Pascal but, after a bit of work, I was able to compile an AOF file for each source file. So far, so good...

However, when trying to link the AOFs into a binary, I got an error saying that it couldn't find ALLOCATE which was being called from the Pascal library. I was trying to link with the Panos and Pascal libraries and tried various orders...

After investigating a bit, there's a definition file for ALLOCATE in the Modula-2 library but it takes two parameters (an address and a size). However, the description of ALLOCATE on p. 42 of the Panos Programmer's Reference Manual has it taking a single parameter (the size).

A bit of a long shot I guess but has anyone overcome similar issues with Panos or know whether the signature for ALLOCATE changed? I'm using Panos 1.4 and the corresponding libraries and compilers.

Thanks,

Rob

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jgharston
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby jgharston » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:57 am

BigEd wrote:I think what would be nice is a portable command line utility which understands the extra attributes in an Acorn-extended zip file and can write to a disk image format. But someone would need to write that...

I did, 18 years ago. It's called BBCZip. Others also did more than 25 years ago, it's called InfoZip.

hoglet wrote:This probably a question for Jonathan (JGH).
Is there a known issue with Pandora 2.00 that means the current program is not preserved following a soft break?
(...)

Hmm. I'll have a look.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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BigEd
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Re: Pandora / Panos Questions

Postby BigEd » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:46 am

> BBCZip and InfoZip
Thanks!


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