My Idea of Summer Fun

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danielj
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby danielj » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:17 pm

I taught on a joint field course with Manchester Met, and both institutions applied the same standards in that context. I would concede, however, that I'm not convinced it's uniform across the board, although I'd like to think it is...

d.

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:29 pm

I'm not convinced it's uniform across the board


One thing I am not convinced of is that, suddenly (so to speak), 80% of kids
who stay in school into the Upper Sixth form are intellectually capable of
coping with the sort of education that 5% of school leavers were capable of in
1980.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:01 pm

danielj wrote:It is at this University. And looks to be the same at Reading (just as another institution I could find the criteria for easily): https://www.reading.ac.uk/web/files/exa ... t-2012.pdf

(That's not to say some don't slip through the net, but in my experience, marking is surprisingly consistent)


This is standard blurb. So not sure what you mean. A person with a 1st is always going to have fully understand the course work dictated and be examined on that course work, their project/disertation is going to be of a very high standard. But they are not required to have added to the body of knowledge in their subject, this is what postgrads do.

And agree having working in arguable the best university in the county for a numebr of years, there are many academics who while brilliant in their area may not be able to tie their shoe laces or work out how to make a cup of tea.

Playing :twisted: here. I havent met many drones myself, but this is what is reported in the IT press.
Last edited by Elminster on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:02 pm

danielj wrote:I taught on a joint field course with Manchester Met, and both institutions applied the same standards in that context. I would concede, however, that I'm not convinced it's uniform across the board, although I'd like to think it is...

d.


Even if it was, people are always going to take oxbridge 1st over an ex poly, even if the course on that Poly was better.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:11 pm

richmond62 wrote:What I can tell you though, is that for my MA from SIUC, my thesis involved a lot of original thought: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ric ... stics/info , and was expected too.

My MSc thesis from Abertay likewise: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RRRThesis/info



Dont think mine was ever published so you wont need to read mine :-)

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:53 pm

Dont think mine was ever published so you wont need to read mine

very droll :P

No-one HAS to read mine . . . and it's not my fault if you are the
sort of kinky, masochistic type who feels an urge to do so.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:02 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Dont think mine was ever published so you wont need to read mine

very droll :P

No-one HAS to read mine . . . and it's not my fault if you are the
sort of kinky, masochistic type who feels an urge to do so.


Kinky maybe, not sure about masochistic.

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:15 pm

Kinky maybe, not sure about masochistic.


Just waiting on 2 bids for BBC model Bs on ebay.co.uk

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danielj
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby danielj » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:16 am

Elminster wrote:
Even if it was, people are always going to take oxbridge 1st over an ex poly, even if the course on that Poly was better.


Aye - which is a shame as the teaching on many courses at certain "pre 1992" institutions really is far superior to those at some of the others...

Elminster wrote:This is standard blurb. So not sure what you mean. A person with a 1st is always going to have fully understand the course work dictated and be examined on that course work, their project/disertation is going to be of a very high standard. But they are not required to have added to the body of knowledge in their subject, this is what postgrads do.


I think we're possibly at crossed purposes. So generally no, undergrads don't "contribute to the body of knowledge" unless they manage to pull off an amazing end of final year project, but to get the higher grades they're certainly expected to be thinking originally (i.e. generating new hypotheses and arguments and not just regurgitating what they've been taught or others have written). I thought we were discussing drones coming out of the back end of University unable to think outside the box, and I just really wanted to make the point that the expectation is certainly there that they can if they're achieving higher degree classifications. :D

d.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:35 am

danielj wrote:I think we're possibly at crossed purposes. So generally no, undergrads don't "contribute to the body of knowledge" unless they manage to pull off an amazing end of final year project, but to get the higher grades they're certainly expected to be thinking originally (i.e. generating new hypotheses and arguments and not just regurgitating what they've been taught or others have written). I thought we were discussing drones coming out of the back end of University unable to think outside the box, and I just really wanted to make the point that the expectation is certainly there that they can if they're achieving higher degree classifications. :D


Well we were sort of, but multiple threads going at the same time. Obvious 1st is a special case as it will contain people who do exactly what is needed, super geniuses, and everyone in between but still not enough of those to go around, majority will be less. You have the undergrads like Stephen Hawkin who according to his own admission didnt really put much effort in on undergrad degree and easy came away with a first, then there is everyone else .... And then you will get drop outs that who do quite well e.g. Bill Gates.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:42 am

danielj wrote:
Elminster wrote:
Even if it was, people are always going to take oxbridge 1st over an ex poly, even if the course on that Poly was better.


Aye - which is a shame as the teaching on many courses at certain "pre 1992" institutions really is far superior to those at some of the others...


Indeed. My 'free' MA I got from a very old East Anglian University always gains more attention on my CV than the OU MSc that I put a huge amount of effort and work into part-time for years. (Although to be fair both are very good Universities (Well I think so anyway, but then I am biased) Obviously I keep both on my CV)

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:01 am

Obviously I keep both on my CV

Ha, Ha, Ha.

I keep my BA (good Uni'), MA (medium Uni') and MSc (dump) certs on the wall in
my school, and the parents really "go" in a big way for the third one because it
is the sexiest looking diploma . . .

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dgrubb
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby dgrubb » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:40 pm

I went to a former-Poly and, although I'm somewhat biased on the matter, they had a lot of strength in their technical programs. Fortunately, I moved to the US where they aren't familiar enough with the UK system to have preconceived notions about such things. For some reason people are impressed when they see my BSc is in Robotics, assuming (incorrectly) that it would be a more rigorous field of study than any other technical subject.

Zarchos wrote:Oh oh bring the pop corn and watch ...


Heh. :)

Really though, thanks for your comments on the matter, everyone. My own kids a little young to take up actual coding but I have a clever nephew who is approaching the age so I've been thinking about this sort of thing recently.

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:09 pm

I'm with you:
I went to a former-Poly and, . . . they had a lot of strength in their technical programs.

I feel the most important word there is "had" because an awful lot of erstwhile Polys, after they had become "Universities",
sooner or later dropped their technical programs. When I was at school I wanted to go to Lanchester Polytechnic (now mysteriously
and quite unnecessarily transmogrified into Coventry University) but was prevented because my parents were (are still) terrible
academic snobs, and their son had to go to a University. While in the great scheme of things that is neither here nor there
30 years later, I was well aware that what Lanchester Poly offered was much more hands-on and
less abstract than what was being offered at Universities; and that was what I wanted.

I learnt the most at Abertay from Mr Colin Maclean, a "survivor" from when it had been Dundee Tech. who told me
that sooner rather than later he would lose his job as his teaching was too hands-on and he didn't have a PhD
(what my older son calls a "Fuh-Duh").

Currently I am embroiled in a discussion over here: http://community.computingatschool.org.uk/
about the bizarre amount of theoretical stuff in 'O' and 'A' level computer programming.

I fail utterly to see any point whatsoever in theoretical guff (especially at high school level);
at high school and at Uni' I was not taught any theoretical stuff, but I was taught how to program
and how to get computers to do things. I can drive a car perfectly well without understanding
the niceties of whatever goes on inside the engine of my car.

Zarchos
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Zarchos » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:51 pm

Interesting to read you.
My own small experience with British Uni dates from 1995.
After graduating with difficulties (although I had a baccalauréat, section D (biology, physics, maths in that order) I spent 2 years afterward studying Law, at the Uni, not the best to keep one's knowledge in Mathematics) in the 1st or 2nd best Institut de Technologie in Computer Science in the lovely town of Aix-En-Provence, I have been to the Derby University to keep on studying Computer Science.
A lot of maths at a level I was not prepared to understand ; but an incredibly poor level in Computer Science with just no coding.
In 2 years in France I had studied ADA, C++, a bit of x86 assembly language, relational database and the Merise IIRC way to cope with complexity when creating a database, of course SQL (the real thing with all the commands, not created by any software to help you), Unix with IIRC pipes and processes, Ethernet and its 7 layers and networking with software to code but well I don't remember the details, a woman had distracted me ah ah ah but I digress ...
These 2 years at the I.U.T with sthing like 45+ hours a week of courses (Monday to Saturday morning included) and constant exams (on average 3 per week), plus small projects alone or in groups every fortnight plus an annual project for the last year, should, from the own teachers viewpoint, have been taught in 3 years.

In 4 years spent at the Facultés (it must be your Uni) you end up with a much inferior knowledge and ability to produce good quality code.
Last infos : in this IUT 70% of teachers came from the industry.
In particular the 3 ADA teachers had either worked for the railway system or Parisian subway, and if IIRC some had worked for the military and Ariane Espace but couldn t give more details.
The person teaching SQL and the methology ran a company and was paid for important projects where his expertise was praised.

Figures were that 100% of people with a DUT (Diplôme Universitaire de Technologie) found a job in less than 3 months ; 30% could easily be taken by Engineering Schools ; when for the people at the University well ... it could be a good idea to keep on studying.

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:05 pm

Should have gone next door to Staffordshire Uni, in the 90s had brand new computer centre and good Database courses ( also ran courses do business) no idea if still the case. 20 years later maybe not.

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1024MAK
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby 1024MAK » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:32 pm

Elminster wrote:Ah so that is what the offtopic forum is for, you just put random posts on replies to other posts :evil:

Ever been to the chit chat section of WoS? Plenty of random posts there... :lol:

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki‬ - for answers to many questions...

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Elminster
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby Elminster » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:49 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Elminster wrote:Ah so that is what the offtopic forum is for, you just put random posts on replies to other posts :evil:

Ever been to the chit chat section of WoS? Plenty of random posts there... :lol:

Mark


I Can't cope with naked zx81s

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:37 pm

If it's ---- you want, look no further:

500x_nerdzeugung.jpg

You just press those buttons, baby!

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richmond62
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Re: My Idea of Summer Fun

Postby richmond62 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:59 pm

When I visit Mum and Dad in the second half of August I'll be picking up a Model B I just bought
for 110 quid on eBay.

Let's hope I haven't been conned:

Screen Shot 2017-06-24 at 10.58.51 pm.png


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